Sony EX1 looks great! I had hoped for something less expensive, though.

ingvarai

Ingvarai,
Here's a link to camcorder review that will help you decide. I'm partial to the Sony line but there are quite a few out there that are very good. Recommend you buy HD format as picture quality is way better. You can get a Sony Z1U for sub $3500 if you shop around. Make sure to check EBay. If your budget is lower, check out the Sony HC9. I've also heard very good reviews on the Cannon HV30. Look at the reviews and see which one fits your needs. Hope that helps a little.

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/

Randy

Thanks Randy,
I am much wiser now than when I started this thread.

The Sony EX1 looks like the best camera, but alas - too expensive for me. Currently I am considering CANON XH A1 and Sony HDR-FX7. Seems like my requirement about no moving parts cannot be satisfied (It records to tape).

ingvarai

Yes, both are very good cams and I think the Canon is actually rater higher (due to the audio capability and more control in low light situations) than the FX7 according to Camcorderinfo. I frequent the Wedding videographer forum on DVInfonet and the Canon is a staple there. Good luck with your purchase.
Randy

panasonic hmc150 ...brilliant camera plus 3 yr warranty... much lighter than xh-a1...xh-a1 and fx7 both use minidv...hmc150 uses sd cards...

whatever camera you get - get a waterproof housing for it first ;-)

Whatever you do, give your camera a couple days to dry out before writing it off. I've had several "miracles" happen to electronics that got soaked. Just don't try to power it up for a few days to avoid electrolysis (keep the battery detached) and you might be suprised.

Edit: The new Panny (TM300) looks promising. Slightly in the pro direction, like you were saying, and very portable.

How come my goofy nephew can run his cell phone through the wash not once, but twice...and it keeps on working!

Can you sun dry it, gently blow dry it?
Could happen....I'll say a prayer non-the-less.... ;-)

Eileen

:-)

My cell phone has been through the wash twice as well! Still works just fine. Also...

My 2 year old squirted my 42 inch lcd TV with a squirt gun and the water ran under the bezel. A few minutes later the TV stopped working, the on/off LED went out, all controls stopped working, etc. 7 hours later it was working again.

And at 8 years old I jumped in the community pool, only to realize mid jump that I was wearing my rare GCE 4-in-1 game watch. Dried it out and it still works to this day, 26 years later.

Edit: I wouldn't use heat to dry it. Try keeping it in an air conditioned room or in a bag with some gel dessicant.

Ingvarai, as another poster stated the Panasonic HMC150 (151 for pal) is a great HD cam that uses SD cards. I have been very pleased with mine.

Panasonic has just announced the new HMC40 which is expected to have a street price of about US $2400. Not sure when it is shipping but it might be an option if you aren't in a hurry.

PS - sorry about your cam taking a bath.

Jerry

PS - sorry about your cam taking a bath

Thanks for your sympathy!
I have come over it now, almost. I will be set back $1000. I am happy that my kayak trip ended with no personal damage, to look at the bright side of it. I have disassembled, dried up, assembled, tried to power up - still dead. Then disassembled it again, completely, and found corrosion ans suspicious spots between the connectors on several printed circuit boards, so I have given it up totally.

On the bright side, I have taken out the built in flash memory (Sandisk 2 x 8 Gb). So what I need now, is an adapter so that I can rescue the last footages (including the kayak rolling :-)
I wonder where I can acquire such a piece of hardware. Any clues?
I doubt it is available to the public, but I know repair shops do have, so the final step for me will probably be to send it in and get the last recordings transferred to another media.

New camera - I have dropped all tape cameras. Memory card cameras are coming at full speed, and the advantages are so many that I will either purchase another "cheap" HF 10 and wait 6-12 months till the prices have dropped a little, or couch up enough money to get a professional memory card based camera now.

ingvarai

whatever camera you get - get a waterproof housing for it first ;-)

Definitely :-)
I hed never believed that this 10-15 seconds dive would be so distastrous.. I had wrapped it in a transparent plastic bag, though.

ingvarai

Jerry,
Ingvarai, as another poster stated the Panasonic HMC150 (151 for pal) is a great HD cam that uses SD cards. I have been very pleased with mine

Yes, I am seriously considering this. The technical interesting question is how this can produce high quality HD video, considering the relatively low bit rate (13 Mbps ?). A new Canon HF 11 consumer camera records at 24 Mbps. And I believe both cameras use AVCHD.
If I buy such a camera, I expect the image sharpness to be visibly better than the best images from a HF 11 at best quality settings.

Edited:
I found this, and it is definitely better than the best of my Canon HF10

So I am convinced.

ingvarai

I just got my HMC150 on Monday. It's wonderful, especially since I'm upgrading from VX2100's.

I'm doing my first wedding with it and a Canon HV30 on Saturday.

All in all, the best feature set of any camera in the price range.

All in all, the best feature set of any camera in the price range.

Yes, this is what I found out too, so I will order it tomorrow.
Decent audio facilities, slow motion, advanced graph metering (various curves) which I do not understand much of right now, pre-recording and no built in memory :-)
Which means, when I drop this in the water, I can just pull out the SD card and my work is not lost :-)
I believe I have found the entry level pro camera for me, thanks to everybody for your invaluable help in this forum!

ingvarai

Ingvari,
I am considering the HMC150 as camera to go (ironically) underwater (with housing-natch!) so I have been reading up on it quite a bit before dropping the cash. Here's what I learnt pertaining to some of your questions-

The 150 doesn't shoot slow mo natively, but using Cineform Neo you can play back 720 60p at 24 frames per second. This is of course slow motion, but it requires an extra software tool.

Also, there has been lots of discussions I've been reading about the bit rates. Essentially, the 150 in highest quality records an average of 21Mbps but can go up to 24 when motion kicks in. The way the canon is marketed is that it records 24 Mbps, but it that is at the highest. It still averages (apparently) 21 Mbps. They both use variable bit rates.

Looks like a great camera for the price though,
Good luck!
kairosmatt

"The 150 doesn't shoot slow mo natively, but using Cineform Neo you can play back 720 60p at 24 frames per second. This is of course slow motion, but it requires an extra software tool."

Sorry - but if you live in PAL land Ingvari (which I think)
Neo Scene cannot do 24p in PAL its just for NTSC.

With HMC 151 (PAL version) you can shoot in NTSC mode too
but I don´t know if that is meaningful when you probably deliver in PAL - I haven´t tested yet with my HMC 151.
I hope this isn´t a big downside for you becuse HMC is great !
/Aje

Just keep in mind that there are a few people experiencing pops and clicks in the HMC150 audio when shooting in high-volume environments. Not everyone, but enough for Panasonic to be looking into it.

I'll know how mine does when I shoot a wedding on Saturday. I'll be bringing a back-up audio recorder just in case I need supplemental audio.

kairosmatt, I have the HMC150 and do this within Vegas no problem. Just load your 720p60 footage into a 24p project and set playback rate to 0.4. Result: beautiful slowmo.

Jerry

The 150 doesn't shoot slow mo natively, but using Cineform Neo you can play back 720 60p at 24 frames per second. This is of course slow motion, but it requires an extra software tool.

Jerry, thanks for the tip. I'll look into that. Do you turn of re-sample when you do that?

I have an HVX200 which can shoot in 720 60p, but I haven't tested it yet because I can also shoot slow mo straight in the camera.

I'll try and test next week, shoot something in slow mo over 24 and then shoot it at 60p and slow it down on a 24p timeline. Hopefully there's no difference.

kairosmatt

Ditto to comments on HMC-150. Plus it has controls I didn't even know I wanted.

I have had issues with shooting 24p and editing with Vegas 8. Not sure if it's AVCHD file, or Vegas. 30/60fps have been not problem.

I also have Lumix TZ5 (7 or 8 coming soon) and love it ($300). I bought it over Canon HF-10 (or similar) because of focus control (half press, continuous, fixed), nice zoom, and still pics. I heard something else is on the way.

Got my HMC 151 today!!
I want to thank all of you for helping me with choosing the right camera for me. I am confident that I have got just that, the right camera for me, considering price and features all over.

So far I am very impressed by it, being the first pro video camera I have ever had. The funny thing, AVCHD files from this cam plays back in Vegas with no jerkiness at all, not even when setting the playback quality to the top value.

What I still do not understand is Panasonic on one hand claiming it will record at 17-24 Mbps using the best quality settings, and on the other hand recommending an SD card class 4, which do not support the highest bit rate. Wonder if anyone have thoughts about this. I have ordered a class 6 card, so if there is a difference, I might be able so see it.

I am also very happy about the wide angle, which I seldom can't get wide enough. Full zoom I have so far never used.. And the sound quality is excellent using separate microphones.

ingvarai