Way OT:Security Cam recommendations?

RalphM wrote on 3/26/2009, 7:02 AM
My church has installed an electrically controlled lock on the door with an audio intercom (a sign of the times). We now want to install an IP camera, preferably wireless, to allow people in the various offices to be able to visually ID people seeking entrance before releasing the lock.

Camera mounting will be indoors, shooting through floor to ceiling glass wall and door. Ideal position would be on a column accross the entry room, about 20 feet from the person seeking entry.

We don't need power over IP. Pan and tilt is not really a need but I see cameras advertising "digital" pan and tilt. What is that ?
Zoom/resolution should be sufficient to allow facial ID from the 20 ft distance.

The real problem is that we're trying to stay under $300US. Any recommendations would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Ralph

Comments

AlanC wrote on 3/26/2009, 7:33 AM
Digital pan & tilt is like using digital zoom instead of optical. It magnifies the pixels to create space to move around the image. Some of the very recent cameras that offer digital pan & zoom are very good but you won't get much for $300.

Have a look at the http://www.axis.com/Axis IP Cameras[/link] They are good quality units but recognising an individual from 20ft away and through glass is a challenge even for hi-end security cameras, especially if the room that the camera is in is brighter than the light outside.

I think you'll need to up your budget or consider mounting the camera close to the door.
Coursedesign wrote on 3/26/2009, 10:01 AM
20 ft.? That's funny.

Every time I see security video from a robbery, I share the store/bank owner's joy of thinking about the money he saved by buying the cheapest system. Now $30,000 was taken, apparently by "a black or white male, possibly female, or a trained chimpanzee, or possibly some other kind of animal difficult to recognize from the noisy, dark, low-res footage."

I think you should do a search for "Video Intercoms." I have seen inexpensive units that worked well, with a box containing a small camera, a speaker, a microphone, and a doorbell button, talking to one or more inside boxes such as this $228.99 unit:



RalphM wrote on 3/26/2009, 10:23 AM
Bjorn,

Not to worry, all our chimps wear large name tags ;-)

The video intercom would be attractive except that there are multiple locations that need to be able to see the image. An IP camera seems a better fit. We have no need of recording the images - just the ability to recognize who is at the door if we cannot verify them via the intercom.

Thanks,
Ralph

Coursedesign wrote on 3/26/2009, 11:35 AM
The inexpensive Aiphone intercom system supports two inside stations:

The JF standard System supports one color video door station, one master station with monitor, and one sub master station with or without a monitor. Inside stations offer hands-free VOX or Push-to-talk (PTT) communication. Door release and entrance monitoring are standard.

There may be other brands that offer 3+ inside stations, saving you the probably extensive work of creating and testing a system from bits and pieces of networking gear.

Of course I expect your labor is free to the church, but still.
richard-amirault wrote on 3/26/2009, 2:41 PM
I'm no expert ...and I haven't a clue on the current state of the art in "IP" cameras (by that I'm assuming a "web cam")

BUT .. 20 ft is a *long* way away.

I suspect you might get best results with a "standard" closed circuit camera equipped with a telephoto lens. The output of most (if not all) of these is standard composit video.

I would think there is some conversion box to convert that composit video into a IP stream .. but that's just a guess.
rique wrote on 3/26/2009, 5:39 PM
I have one of these Panasonic cameras and it works well though the range of exposure is limited and shooting outside a window that is far away could render the world outside washed out due to the camera compensating for the dark interior. The exposure is controllable through the software, but as I said it is limited. Images up to 640x480. It has digital zoom but real pan and tilt control. If it doesn't suit your needs Amazon will let you return it. It's well within your price range.

http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-BL-C131A-Network-Camera-Wireless/dp/B000NVR9SM/ref=pd_bxgy_e_text_b
RalphM wrote on 3/26/2009, 9:16 PM
Thanks for the inputs - You've convinced me that 20 feet is not realistic. I'm going to scout locations that are closer. I'm amazed how many of these cameras are on the market. Just wish we had a higher budget.

I have seen better cameras that are analog output and have a choice of lenses. There are also fairly inexpensive video servers that will convert analog to IP.

Thanks,
Ralph
TheHappyFriar wrote on 3/27/2009, 7:17 AM
@ work we use wired cameras. They're more reliable in that as long as the camera & wire are good, you have signal. Wireless/internet ones can get interference/need computer.

If you're interested in talking to the person who's incharge of the cameras I can give you his e-mail after I check & see if it's ok with him.
RalphM wrote on 3/27/2009, 10:40 AM
HappyFriar: I suspect your workplace cameras/system are probably out of our price range, but if your tech person is willing to share any insights, they would be appreciated.

Question for rique: One of the people in our decision making group claims the Panasonic you cited cannot be accessed by more than one viewer at a time in local mode (just running through the building router). Do you know if that is true?

Thanks,
Ralph
TheHappyFriar wrote on 3/27/2009, 11:02 AM
I work at a school, lowest bidder (which didn't happen to be the cheapest!). ;)

but they work, that's the important thing. You'd want something simpler then what we have (DVR that records up to ~2 or 3 weeks from 3 camera), but the basic camera is the same.
rique wrote on 3/27/2009, 3:05 PM
Question for rique: One of the people in our decision making group claims the Panasonic you cited cannot be accessed by more than one viewer at a time in local mode (just running through the building router). Do you know if that is true?

Ralph, I just tested this and was able to connect two computers to the router with cables and see and control the camera from each. Of course, Panasonic also gives you free, password protected access (for life) to a web site (viewnetcam.com) to view and control the camera remotely.
RalphM wrote on 3/27/2009, 8:27 PM
thank you HappyFriar and thank you rique for testing. The specs indicate more than one can connect simultaneously, but direct experience is worth more than specs IMHO.

Thanks,
Ralph