Motion Blur that will not go away? Help!

Tom Pauncz wrote on 3/12/2009, 11:15 AM

Graham,
Probably because the bus track is still there. To bypass motionblur, you need to click on the "little boxes with red line thru' "on the track header of your original media.
Skype me...
Tom

Grazie wrote on 3/12/2009, 2:37 PM

And what would you say if I don't have any Motion blur envelope engaged? Shouldn't THAT force no MB? Why bother having a menu that allows one to engage/not-engage an envelope?

. .and yeah, I know about the track header

Grazie

( missed your call . .will call back . . )

farss wrote on 3/12/2009, 3:03 PM

I don't think you can disengage MB.
Simplest way, copy project, delete envelope, problem solved.

Bob.

Grazie wrote on 3/12/2009, 3:37 PM

I don't think you can disengage MB. Sure you can! Disengage/uncheck the Motion Blur Envelope - OK?

Simplest way, copy project, delete envelope, problem solved. - Er, yeah . . what I am bringing to our KB is that I HAVE a MB without an envelope and the ONLY way I can remove the effect of MB - which is not engaged and not showing an envelope - is to click on the FX bypass. I'd call that bizarre. What you have suggested is the get-outta-jail solution. Fine. And yes I can do that, of course.

Grazie

farss wrote on 3/13/2009, 12:48 AM

"And what would you say if I don't have any Motion blur envelope engaged?"

Here's where you threw me off the scent. "Engaged" read to me that you had an envelope but had disengaged it. Then you said:

"what I am bringing to our KB is that I HAVE a MB without an envelope and the ONLY way I can remove the effect of MB - which is not engaged and not showing an envelope - is to click on the FX bypass."

Do you mean you're getting motion blur but you've removed the envelope?
If so then the only way you could stop the motion blur was to use the FX Bypass icon in the Video Buss Track header?

If I've followed that correctly then YES. that's friggin confusing behavior.

I've just tested this in V7.0d. All behaves as expected and I cannot repo you problem. Hitting the FX bypass does remove the MB, dragging the MB envelop down to 0 removes the MB, removing the MB envelope removes the MB.

I repeated these tests using V8.0b and again all works as expected, well better than expected as I didn't think the FX Bypass would bypass the MB envelope but it does.

I only used a very simple test case and I don't have 8.0c installed to test.

Bob.

Grazie wrote on 3/13/2009, 1:34 AM

"Hitting the FX bypass does remove the MB, " . . .yes, works for me

"dragging the MB envelop down to 0 removes the MB, . ." . . yes, works for me

" removing the MB envelope removes the MB." No, this is the one procedure that was NOT working.

The ONLY way I could remove the MB effect is to hit the FX Bypass Icon - even though I have REMOVED (unchecked/disengaged) the MB Envelope.

And that is the bizarre behaviour I am reporting here. No MB Envelope but it stubbornly retains the MB Effect.

However . . . When I did a save and close and reopen it was still exhibiting this same behaviour. But today, after a reboot of the edit PC I am "happy" to announce the behaviour has vanished and I am getting what I'd expect.

Is it at all possible that even AFTER save and close and reopen, that this type of command could still be lurking in a corner?

I shall keep a weather-eye on this.

Thanks Bob!

Grazie

Grazie wrote on 3/14/2009, 2:23 AM

It is back . . . . . . .

Totally bizarre . . .

After leaving this project for a day, I just re-opened it this morning. A completely new reboot. And WITHOUT any ANY MoBlur Envelope I have MoBlur. I'll repeat: Without a Motion Blur Envelope I have Motion Blur. AND, the only way I can remove it is to hit the fx bypass on the video bus - which means I am by-passing an envelope that presently DOES NOT EXSIST!!!

B - i - z - a - r - r - e

Grazie

Grazie wrote on 3/14/2009, 2:52 AM

. . . solution found!

Grazie

AlistairLock wrote on 3/14/2009, 4:46 AM

And the soultion was... ?

(I can't bear the suspense)

Grazie wrote on 3/14/2009, 5:22 AM

l o l . . .

Grazie wrote on 3/14/2009, 5:25 AM

I had to reset the Envelope to ZERO!!! If I didn't then it would remain as a "Ghost-In-The-Machine" . . .

. .and THIS you don't need to do with Volume Envel.

I need some further proof of this and if so . . off to Madison it will go!

Grazie

farss wrote on 3/14/2009, 5:40 AM

OK,
just to reacp, steps to reproduce:

1) Add MB envelope, set it some non zero value.
2) Delete MB Envelope and MB Remains.

If that's correct I'll try to repo however I'm pretty certain I already tried that sequence.

The other possibilityies:
1) Changing the MB envelope fails to flush the RAM preview buffer.
2) Deleting the MB envelope fails to flush the RAM preview buffer.

either of the above could produce symptoms like you are seeing.
Pretty certain I also checked this as well.

Really important that someone else can repo your problem. Without that it just gets written off as an "environment problem".

Bob.

Grazie wrote on 3/14/2009, 6:01 AM

1) Add MB envelope, set it some non zero value. That's the one, but rather "disengage" or uncheck yeah? The "flushing" RAM was what I was saying, by doing the overnight total reboot? I've also "cleaned-out" my undo<>redo temp buffer folder.

As to it being local to me, and my MONSTA! that is why I am asking for tertiary proof. As to what you did previously, Bob, I am not sure?

Grazie

farss wrote on 3/14/2009, 6:41 AM

Just tried your steps to repo.

PAL DV 16:9 project, PAL DV 16:9 50i onto the T/L, plenty of motion.

Added MB Envelope with quite a few nodes up and down and up. Works as expected. Left envelope as it was and deleted envelope. Sorry to say no MB visible on playback.

Now comes the odd part.
Re-insert MD envelope and it's back, no NOT reset, all my nodes etc are intact back as they were before I deleted the envelope. Now that is wierd, one would think when you delete an envelope it's gone unless you hit Ctl + Z. Adding an envelope should create a NEW envelope I would have thought.
So, yes. Whilst I can't repo your problem as such I can see an oddity which could leave a window open for a ghost to fly in.

Bob.

Grazie wrote on 3/14/2009, 8:18 AM

Well, so what YOU are saying is that you'd expect that when I uncheck the MB Envel and that the points should default BACK to ZEROs? Is that what you are saying? BUT what you are finding is that the POINTS are coming back - ie they're being retained.

Grazie

Tom Pauncz wrote on 3/14/2009, 8:37 AM

OK folks,
I just tried this again ... VPro 8.0c

1. Open new project with media
2. Make video bus track visible
3. Insert MB envelope
4. Add some points - verified MB is there
5. Remove/uncheck MB - MB is gone
6. Insert MB envelope - points back zero, IOW no MB
7. Set up some points again - MB is there
8. In 'View' uncheck video bus track - MB still there (as expected)
9. 'View' check video bus track - points back intact
10. Remove MB envelope - MB gone
11. Insert MB envelope - points are still at ZERO

HTH,
Tom

FuTz wrote on 3/14/2009, 10:43 AM

...reminds me of Robin Williams illness in that Woody Allen film...

farss wrote on 3/14/2009, 3:42 PM

"Well, so what YOU are saying is that you'd expect that when I uncheck the MB Envel and that the points should default BACK to ZEROs? Is that what you are saying? BUT what you are finding is that the POINTS are coming back - ie they're being retained."

Not just "the points should default BACK to ZEROs". The points (nodes) should be gone, I should have a clean, flatline envelope with only the first point and that point should be at zero.

Bob.

Tom Pauncz wrote on 3/14/2009, 4:25 PM

Bob,
That is EXACTLY what I found in my tests above.
Tom

Grazie wrote on 3/14/2009, 11:15 PM

So, what we have here is an expectation running counter to what is actually happening.

Bob expected to see a fresh new Envelope - but he didn't. I expected to NOT see MB but I did. And the only way I could force this was to "reset" the points. I think we are starting to unearth some convergence. Tom has proved that it is working as it should: Adding and removing a "Point-ed" Envelope returns a "flatline" envelope.

It is often the case, with these situations, that inducting a result "backwards" would appear illogical and counter to helpfully identify a causal result. Meaning, here is an awkward example, if I was to cross a canyon, on a rope-ladder/bridge, because I can see the wooden slats stretching out in front of me, and I have actually got to the point safely, I am more than certain and convinced that they are remaining behind me. However, these casual conditions - a non-flatlining Envelope on replacing the MB Envelope - would indicate that the wooden slats, steps, treads are actually disappearing (ie - the experience of the envelope points remaining) as I step forward. But to actually SEE this happening I would need to have some form of a "rear-view mirror" to confirm this. And of course, this is not possible with s/w. Or maybe it is? . . . . .

What Bob expected - a fresh envelope - DOES happen with a Volume Envelope.

So, thanks to Bob and Tom for feeding back results, what I will say, that presently I have "removed" the ghost by a Select All and paste into a fresh Vegas project! - So, until it rears up again . . .

Grazie