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Subject: And so it begins...
Posted by: Weevil
Date: 10/27/2008 6:02:51 AM

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/download/trials/acidpro

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: AnthonyTower
Date: 10/27/2008 6:25:08 AM

Thanks for the heads up!

Cheers

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: Rickms
Date: 10/27/2008 6:46:15 AM

someone should check this package. I installed and two new trogan programs were detected by my antivirus? It may just be me, but some should check this. Also, the installation requires an authentication key even in the demo mode. The server that provides that key does not appear to be working.

Message last edited on 10/27/2008 6:46:42 AM by Rickms.
Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: AnthonyTower
Date: 10/27/2008 7:09:34 AM

>The server that provides that key does not appear to be working.

I have the same problem :(

I'm guessing the server is getting overloaded with requests.

Cheers

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: bbcdrum
Date: 10/27/2008 8:08:58 AM

I just had an online chat with SCS Customer Service. Apparently, they are having some "technical difficulties" and suggested that I get back to them in an hour. That would be just after 9 am Pacific time.

Maybe I'll give them a few hours...

Kevin

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: AnthonyTower
Date: 10/27/2008 8:26:32 AM

'got off the phone with a courteous rep. in Madison and was explained that the technical difficulties are just a matter of updating the database that generates the Auth. codes for ACID Pro 7.

I'm guessing everything should be smooth sailing by tomorrow morning, besides, what's a day more or less when you've waited 2 years :)

Cheers


Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: kbruff
Date: 10/27/2008 8:59:10 AM

Are there special prices for existing users, I recall prices like $99.00 and $149.00 etc.?

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: drbam
Date: 10/27/2008 9:19:54 AM

Upgrade price on the site is $134.95 but we should receive notification of a special time-limited offer if Sony follows their past policy. I have not received anything yet . . .

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: bbcdrum
Date: 10/27/2008 9:33:24 AM

I received an email this morning with a $149.95 upgrade price.

Offer includes: "Sony headphones ($50 value) or a Standard Loop Library ($60 value)"

"Don't wait a minute more — upgrade to ACID Pro 7 for only $149.95 now! Get your choice of FREE Sony premium earbud headphones or one of five of the newest Standard Loop libraries released."

"Offer begins October 27, 2008 and expires December 31, 2008. Sony headphones available only while supplies last. Qualifying serial number required for upgrade pricing. Offer available only when purchasing directly from Sony Creative Software via links in this email. Pricing displayed in US Dollars. Customers outside the US may be charged in local currency. Shipping charges may apply. "

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: DanH
Date: 10/27/2008 9:35:54 AM

Hmm, that's funny. I got an email from Sony saying the upgrade price would be $149.00 (until Dec 31st).

Dan

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: LAnthonyW
Date: 10/27/2008 10:17:10 AM

MY MISTAKE!!!! The difference is between the download and shipped version.

Egg all over my face.

Message last edited on 10/27/2008 3:16:46 PM by LAnthonyW.
Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: DanH
Date: 10/27/2008 10:25:00 AM

Actually, the difference is between the boxed ($149) and download ($134) versions...


Message last edited on 10/27/2008 10:25:29 AM by DanH.
Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: ForumAdmin
Date: 10/27/2008 10:30:15 AM

DanH is correct. The $149.95 upgrade price mentioned in the email is the packaged pricing. It's also the pricing for the download if you were to choose the download upgrade ($134.95) + the optional shipped components ($15).

Funny thing is we used the packaged price in the email so that people didn't feel mislead if they wanted the box.

Message last edited on 10/27/2008 10:33:51 AM by ForumAdmin.
Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: Rickms
Date: 10/27/2008 10:52:33 AM

What a tease. I hope Sony works out the authentication issue. I actually got so excited that I started a new project in version 6. That effort lasted about 5 minutes before it locked up. I'm truly hoping the new version is more stable and more tolerant with VST(s). I have VSTs that constantly crash Acid. The same VST that run fine in Live, Sonar, Tracktion and Reaper.

Message last edited on 10/27/2008 10:55:26 AM by Rickms.
Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: ForumAdmin
Date: 10/27/2008 12:03:29 PM

Is anyone currently experiencing this authentication issue? If so, what kind of error message do you get?

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: Rickms
Date: 10/27/2008 12:12:43 PM

it begins processing a cookie and then brings up a dialog box that states:

"An error occurred during registration of ACID Pro 7.0"

It appears to be kicking out during some function related to a cookie.

Vista Business 32 bit.

If someone from tech support needs to speak to me let me know.

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: Vocalpoint
Date: 10/27/2008 12:29:50 PM

"Is anyone currently experiencing this authentication issue? If so, what kind of error message do you get? "

Admin,

Could you be so kind to post a "sticky" at the top of the forum if/when the authorization issues have been resolved.

I really don't want to get home in 3 hours - install - and then find out I am left hanging all night because I cannot get my copy authorized.

Cheers!

VP

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: bbcdrum
Date: 10/27/2008 12:43:41 PM

Choices that I made:

1) Run the trial version of ACID Pro 7.0.

2) Register online

3) Filled out registration information, checked both check-boxes

4) Clicked "Finish"


"An error occurred during registration of ACID Pro 7.0.

The server was unable to complete the registration as requested."


Kevin

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: billybk
Date: 10/27/2008 12:43:52 PM

"Is anyone currently experiencing this authentication issue? If so, what kind of error message do you get?"


The server was unable to complete the registration as requested. [-43]

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: porkjelly
Date: 10/27/2008 12:48:56 PM

Mine completed with no problems.

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: ForumAdmin
Date: 10/27/2008 1:00:43 PM

For anyone who was getting the error message:
The server was unable to complete the registration as requested. [-43]

Please give it another try now and let me know if you are still having any problems. It looks like our database is finally updated to allow those registrations.

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: Rickms
Date: 10/27/2008 1:02:36 PM

Worked for me. Thank you.

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: bbcdrum
Date: 10/27/2008 1:12:03 PM

Works for me now, although I did uninstall and reinstall ACID 7. The first install and reg attempt was "pre database fix" and the second install was "post fix." FWIW

Thanks!

Kevin

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: billybk
Date: 10/27/2008 2:01:04 PM

After a few more attempts I was able to register. ACID Pro 7 demo installed, registered and working.

So far, so good.............

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: Jeff_Smith
Date: 10/27/2008 2:17:40 PM

I received the email notification, but not one with the ear bud headphone offer for upgrading from prior version?

Message last edited on 10/27/2008 2:21:01 PM by Jeff_Smith.
Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: ForumAdmin
Date: 10/27/2008 3:12:32 PM

If you received the HTML version of the message (with images and such), you'll see the info about the ear buds in the right column.

If you received the text version of the email, click the very first link in the email and you can see the full promotion online.

Or just check out the ACID Pro product page, we have the promo - available to all - on the right side of the page below the overview links. http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/acidpro


Message last edited on 10/27/2008 3:12:51 PM by ForumAdmin.
Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: LAnthonyW
Date: 10/27/2008 3:19:04 PM

I apologize for my error. I didn't realize I was comparing boxed prices to download prices. I was going to give up music completely because 1) I can't bend over my keyboards, and 2) I can't use a MIDI controller in my lap because of severe back problems. But, with Acid, I can at least stay involved in music until I do get better, if I do. So, I did upgrade to v7. I had no problems downloading, registering, or activating it.

I have very frequent migraines, including right now, and to say I miss details or get confused over simple things, are major understatements. There was nothing Sony, nor anyone else, could have done to keep me from getting confused about which version the email upgrade was for.

I have to go wipe the egg off my face now. It's getting into my eyes. ;)

Message last edited on 10/27/2008 5:34:37 PM by LAnthonyW.
Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: Jeff_Smith
Date: 10/27/2008 3:55:09 PM

OK my bad, the first upgrade page where you select packaged or download does not show the earbuds as an option, after you enter your SN that option shows up.

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: feign
Date: 10/27/2008 5:30:45 PM

So, not to be TOO picky, but none of those free loop libraries particularly thrills me (actually, the one that thrills me I already own), and I don't need the earbuds, so is there or will there be another promotion whereby I can upgrade for a lower price, $99 as someone else here recalled from when AP6 came out?

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: darrena
Date: 10/27/2008 5:57:36 PM

with all of that licensed external software, i'm not sure they can afford to drop the price that low...

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: Bratman!
Date: 10/28/2008 1:36:03 AM

Yup, $134.95 too high! Especially for those of us in foreign countries where 3months ago our exchange rate was bad enough at 7/1 but has now shot to 12/1 !!! (& it's the Dollar which has scored the most over other currencies!!!)
Please Sony! $99 is more than enough! (especially for those of us who have been loyal supporters since AP1!!!)

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: alltheseworlds
Date: 10/28/2008 2:51:59 AM

+1

I couldn't care less about all the extra crap that's tacked on. That's all just PR for the various companies involved anyway.

And the US dollar exchange rate is a killer for me too.

At US$99 - probably.
At US$134 - (with crap I don't want) no way.

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: ScarKord
Date: 10/28/2008 3:32:53 AM

+100

Spare a thought for us in the UK. I haven't received the upgrade e-mail yet, but the price to upgrade to AP7 (according to the website) is £108.95 for the download version BEFORE TAX IS ADDED!!!

How does that equate to the $134 US customers are being charged? Even with the exchange rates being as bad as they are, it should surely be nearer £85 + VAT for UK? (Which I still think is too high).

And if that's not bad enough, the upgrade from Acid XMC to AP7 is only £25 more. How's that for loyalty to long-time Acid Pro owners.

I've stayed out of all the Sony slating up to know and had been quite excited at the prospect of finally having Acid working in Vista - but this feels like a kick in the teeth, so I'm not sure I'll bother now.

Message last edited on 10/28/2008 3:35:33 AM by ScarKord.
Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: DPA
Date: 10/28/2008 6:32:19 AM

+1 for ScarKord

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: thirdnostril
Date: 10/28/2008 7:17:09 AM

I can afford to upgrade, and I can't wait to, but I truly feel for those who can't. Especially after all these months of dealing with a wonky application that many of us couldn't even use, there should have been a giveback. What SONY can afford to do is not what the argument is based on. At some point of inconvenience, it's expected that a company go a small (for SONY, very small) bit out of pocket to rectify the situation. Going all silent and pretending there was no unreasonable hindrance of people's workflows, and then issuing an entire new version--which, once more, core users will help de-bug--at a price point that is a good way toward many serviceable recording programs, is...insufficient, especially for those for whom the extras hold no value. (What about a no-extras download version?)

Besides, we're not talking about a permanent price point. We're talking intro pricing to a pre-determined, passworded group, into which no new members can enter without purchasing a previous version of AP. There's a definite limit to how many people will get that price--the very people who have been most hindered by the lack of any AP6 updates past 6.0d. Maybe there should have been an EXTRA extra for those who registered AP6 more than a year ago--that's verifiable, is it not?

Don't get me wrong--I want that Kitcore, and that sampler looks awesome, and the count-in is a wish come true, and the mixing board I hadn't even considered--I've completely turned my brain sidewas over 5 versions of AP. I'm in. All I'm saying is those who are griping are not misanthropic malcontents--they have a point.

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: drbam
Date: 10/28/2008 7:33:02 AM

I haven't received an email notification yet (my preferences are set to receive all announcements). Obviously it doesn't look like they will be offering the usual time-limited discount to loyal users (another example of Sony giving the finger to its customers - especially those who have had so much trouble with AP6 and are still around).

The upgrade price appears to be what it is so I'll wait for a few months to see how the bug reports and other issues unfold. It appears that AP7 is "working" for some folks but I'm most interested in how it is when you really push it hard - particularly when editing and mixing a complex, multitrack project. AP6 "worked" for me but only up to a point and obviously a lot of folks who reported no problems with AP6 didn't push it as hard as I tend to do in the editing/mixing stage.

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: Cheye
Date: 10/28/2008 10:03:14 AM

I will be waiting for awhile to see what happens when AP7 is pushed hard. Use some UAD-1 plugs, waves, soft synths, edit, multi track record, a ton of tracks etc. Please post your experiences with AP7 since 6d didn't like being pushed hard. 6d worked well for me on small projects, but when I really began to use many elements of the program, something always came up. Thank God for this forum!

Cheye

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: deusx
Date: 10/28/2008 10:36:37 AM

Complaining about a $140 upgrade price is ridiculous. Or is everybody here still in junior high and due to financial crisis, mommy reduced your monthly allowance

You can't have a date with a couple of drinks and a decent cheezeburger in New York for that much.

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: Vocalpoint
Date: 10/28/2008 10:40:41 AM

You can't have a date with a couple of drinks and a decent cheezeburger in New York for that much.

Or a day of parking downtown here in Calgary, AB. :)

Cheers!

VP

Message last edited on 10/28/2008 10:40:59 AM by Vocalpoint.
Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: ScarKord
Date: 10/28/2008 10:41:39 AM

My main issue is that the GBP price is not on a par with the price being charged in USD. I've already taken into account the differences due to VAT but there is still a massive difference between GBP and USD which doesn't match the exchange rate.

Rather than being a question of 'Is the upgrade worth it?' I have to ask 'Why am I being penalised for not living in the US?'

Were I able to get the upgrade at £85+VAT which I think it should be, I would likely (perhaps, begrudgingly) upgrade. I won't upgrade at £108.95+VAT out of principle.

Message last edited on 10/28/2008 10:42:47 AM by ScarKord.
Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: Vocalpoint
Date: 10/28/2008 11:49:10 AM

My main issue is that the GBP price is not on a par with the price being charged in USD.

Neither is the Canadian price. I have to pay a lot more than someone living in Montana (just a few hours away). Still went for it.

Rather than being a question of 'Is the upgrade worth it?' I have to ask 'Why am I being penalized for not living in the US?'

Or I could say - why I am being penalized if I order something from the UK online - like a CD - let's say - the new Kings of Leon - which lists for 7.98GBP (16.26CDN) on Amazon UK while I can buy it on Amazon Canada for 11.99?

Care to comment why the same CD is 5 dollars more in front of Buckingham Palace than in front of the Saddledome?

Were I able to get the upgrade at £85+VAT which I think it should be, I would likely (perhaps, begrudgingly) upgrade. I won't upgrade at £108.95+VAT out of principle.

The above example shows that there are reasons (many not so obvious) for the price differences in other countries.

Hey - look at the bright side - at least your currency is worth something :)

Cheers!

VP

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: MarkWWW
Date: 10/28/2008 12:08:22 PM

If you change the Country/Language you have selected in your web browser you can change the currency you are charged in. I am in the UK but if I click on the offer I get the US$ price because my language settings in IE7 are "English (United States) [en-us]".

You will still have to pay VAT, and the obscene "customs charge" that FedEx applies if you have anything physically delivered.

Mark

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: thirdnostril
Date: 10/28/2008 12:47:33 PM

I see your level of maturity remains very low.

Drink=$10, if they're top-shelf at a tony hotspot. Two drinks each adds up to $40. Let's say a $5 tip.

A cheeseburger deluxe, with tax and tip, is $10 apiece, right around the corner from my Manhattan apartment. EXCELLENT burger.

So far, we're up to $65. I could throw in the cost of a movie and gas and not even be over a C-note.

So as usual, you make a fool of yourself with incorrect assertions and a pissy little attitude. And something tells me you won't even be man enough to apologize.

Could you go away now? Forever? Please?

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: thirdnostril
Date: 10/28/2008 12:49:36 PM

'Why am I being penalised for not living in the US?'

Why should WE be the only ones constantly getting penalized?

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: drbam
Date: 10/28/2008 1:03:19 PM

Just to be clear, I'm not complaining about the price of the upgrade. I spend that much for a nice dinner on most weekends. However, the business ethics and related principles that Sony has recently shown its AP6 customers clearly deserves criticism IMO. To compensate and demonstrate good will, I think it would be nice to AT LEAST continue with their policy of a time-limited discount offer, especially in the case of AP6 > AP7.

Message last edited on 10/28/2008 1:03:57 PM by drbam.
Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: alltheseworlds
Date: 10/28/2008 2:12:31 PM

I think these factors should have helped Sony realize that putting UP the upgrade price was a mistake:

- The DAW market, and the drift toward lower prices (Reaper etc)
- The fact that the upgrade is not revolutionary, but incremental
- The current global financial situation
- AcidPro's declining position in the market
- The need to offer existing customers at LEAST the "usual" upgrade discount

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: ScarKord
Date: 10/28/2008 2:48:44 PM

If you change the Country/Language you have selected in your web browser you can change the currency you are charged in. I am in the UK but if I click on the offer I get the US$ price because my language settings in IE7 are "English (United States) [en-us]

Good tip! Worked a treat!

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: guitacid
Date: 10/28/2008 2:58:54 PM


I got the email and the price to upgrade was US$314. I baulked at that. Too much.

But then i logged into my account here and decided to follow the upgrade process to see what would happen. Turned out that the price came down to US$149 plus $20 shipping. Sony recognised my AP3 serial number despite it being a product from the Sonic Foundry days. That's good stuff. I've jumped in and ordered AP7.

I'm now waiting to receive a hard copy AP7 plus 2 lots of free loop packages. That's good value. Even if the exchange rate stinks in Australia too! And hopefully i don't get mauled by my own customs department in terms of taxes and tariffs. But then again our free trade agreement may help there.

Thanks Sony.

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: Retronut1
Date: 10/28/2008 3:16:15 PM

"I will be waiting for awhile to see what happens when AP7 is pushed hard. Use some UAD-1 plugs, waves, soft synths, edit, multi track record, a ton of tracks etc."

Cheye, Why not download the software for a 30 trial and put the software through the rigors and VST's that you use. Not everyone uses UAD-1 or waves but some of us might be interested in making the purchase of these add-on's if they are stable in AP7.

Although I doubt God has any cares about this forum I too am thankful for the faithful who keep it alive and informative.

Message last edited on 10/28/2008 3:18:01 PM by Retronut1.
Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: drbam
Date: 10/28/2008 4:42:53 PM

I can't speak for Cheye but he may be like me and does not enjoy being a beta-tester. Some folks like to discover the bugs and problems and report back. There's only a few things in life that I hate more than wallowing around in that zone.

Cheers

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: JohnnyRoy
Date: 10/28/2008 5:02:04 PM

> - The DAW market, and the drift toward lower prices (Reaper etc)

While your perception might be that prices are drifting lower... I don't see any facts to support it:

SONAR 8 costs $620 and the upgrade for existing SONAR 7 customers is $180! (Talk about an incremental release that's not worth it!).

Cubase 4 is $600 and the upgrade from Cubase SX3 or SL is $200.

Abelton Live 7 is $600 and the upgrade price is $160.

So ACID is the least expensive at a price of $315 with a $135 upgrade price.

(Reaper doesn't count because it's shareware (couple a guys in a garage hoping to recoop some money)... Audacity is free so should all audio software now be free including Reaper?)

I also have the dubious distinction of being pack-rat and I never delete an email. I just found one from Nov 11, 2004 inviting me to upgrade to ACID Pro 5.0 for $149. Also on April 3, 2006 I have an offer to upgrade to ACID Pro 6.0 for $129.

So they lowered the upgrade price from ACID 5 but upped the price by $5 from ACID 6 from $129.95 to $134.95 for ACID 7.

While we would all like to see the upgrade price be $99 (which is what I'm sensing that most of us we're hoping for) I fail to see the "drift toward lower prices". The fact is that the upgrade price of ACID went up $5 after two years.

~jr

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: porkjelly
Date: 10/28/2008 5:43:26 PM

I've been with ACID Pro since version 3.0 and I don't ever remember a member upgrade price for $99, however I do believe that Sound Forge has been offered for that price for previous version users in the past.

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: araefm
Date: 10/28/2008 6:07:28 PM

The price isn't that bad. Considering the price of Sonar or Cubase, this is way cheaper for a DAW upgrade. It's different and has it's issues, but everything does. I have just started to put the demo to work and it is working rather well. I'm mostly just horse whipping it at the moment! Even on the laptop I'm testing it out on, it's doing better than I expected. Reaper has succumbed to half the torture on the laptop that Acid has had thrown at it. My VST's are much more stable even with ridiculous effects chains added. Very, very nice.......... Can't wait to torture it on my real workstation this weekend!

A lot of issues people have with Acid has more to do with their OS and equipment choices. Windows just gets unstable and most users aren't going to go shell out over a thousand dollars for a high-end audio production soundcard. I have seen a lot of users using Audigy cards and wondering why they can't get a better sound. I have seen, a lot and I mean a lot, that their DAW isn't a dedicated DAW but also their email and myspace machines. My favorite is someone I get a call from putting 512 more megs of ram in a 1ghz Athlon and wonder why it isn't screaming fast with the new memory. Trying to achieve jet speed in a Ford Pinto.............

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: deusx
Date: 10/28/2008 7:06:16 PM

appetizer and a burger at club 21 will cost you at least $100 for 2 people. That's without drinks or any side dishes or desserts.

There are even more expensive ones in New York. So, no I was not wrong at all.

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: alltheseworlds
Date: 10/28/2008 9:47:24 PM

AP4 upgrade was $99.

And JohnnyRoy, your comments about Reaper are absurd. Seems like Reaper hits a bit of a sensitive spot ?

But if the price argument is a little weak (except for non-US customers where the price is *MUCH* higher), then that just leaves the other three points unanswered.

I think it'd also be interesting for some of the high-profile Acid fanclub to reveal whether they were beta testers.

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: PeterWright
Date: 10/28/2008 11:33:34 PM

I'm a fan of Acid

I'm not a Beta tester

I'm a non-US customer

For what seems to be a very well designed new version, it's dirt cheap.

I mean, how much do you earn in a day?

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: JohnnyRoy
Date: 10/29/2008 5:13:40 AM

> AP4 upgrade was $99.

Yea, and gas was $1 a gallon. That was long ago and far away. As I said, AP5 was $149, AP6 was $129. I guess they base the upgrade price partially on the 3rd party packaged items of which AP4 had NONE so Sony could charge what they like.

> And JohnnyRoy, your comments about Reaper are absurd. Seems like Reaper hits a bit of a sensitive spot ?

Nope. Not sensitive at all. Just trying to be fair comparing companies against companies but if you think it's absurd and want to include them, the price for REAPER is $225.00. I don't know what the upgrade cost will be. It's funny because just a few years ago everyone was crying that they were jumping ship on ACID for an inexpensive new alternative called Ableton Live. Today, Live costs $600! So be careful if Reaper gets too popular. They may go the same way (eventually someone realizes that they have to pay the rent).

> ...then that just leaves the other three points unanswered.

OK. I can give you my answers but they are just from my perspective (your perception may vary):

> - The fact that the upgrade is not revolutionary, but incremental

There is absolutely nothing in SONAR 8 that is revolutionary yet they are charging $180 for it. Sometimes incremental is good. I know I have a whole list of little things that bug me about Sony Vegas and if Vegas 9 only fixed all of those things without one new features I would buy it in a heartbeat. It gets to a point where all the major features are there and you just need a little refinement. ACID Pro 7 has made considerable refinement on a host of features that make it better. You might even call the new beatmapper revolutionary but the beapmapper, in general, was an ACID revolution in and of itself. Being able to map multiple beats in one song is really more of an evolution than a revolution but it's a welcome feature that simplifies making mash-ups. So incremental is not bad and worth it if it improves the workflow.

> - The current global financial situation

A temporary state of affairs that is best dealt with using temporary measures, i.e., sales, bundled pricing etc. A $99 sale for 6 weeks to existing AP6 customers only would be a welcome gesture no doubt. Event a permanent $99 without the plug-in bundle. Buy hey... Sony didn't ask us. ;-)

> - AcidPro's declining position in the market

What marketing research is this based on? ACID has been a niche tool but Sony is trying to change that by adding DAW features but almost every plug-in that I've ever registered I've had to click "other" under the hosts category and write in "ACID". I wish it wasn't so but ACID has just doesn't seem to be recognized as a DAW host by many plug-in makers. If anything, the new features in ACID Pro 7 should boost ACID's popularity and change that. (at least I hope so) I don't think lowering the price is the answer to a decline; I think boosting the feature set is, and that's exactly what Sony has done.

> - The need to offer existing customers at LEAST the "usual" upgrade discount

Well... as I said, there is no "usual" upgrade. It's been $99 in 2002, $149 in 2004, and $129 in 2006. Now we have $134 (what an odd number!). So it's in the ballpark of "usual" and only $5 more than the last "usual" which also had a nice 3rd party bundle.

> I think it'd also be interesting for some of the high-profile Acid fanclub to reveal whether they were beta testers.

Having beta tested for other companies, I know that most companies Non-Disclosure Agreements (NDA) include not revealing that you are a beta tester. If this is the case with Sony, anyone who reveals can only say that they are now a "former" beta tester because they would be immediately kicked out for violating their NDA.

I am a fan because the simplicity of the ACID interface has captivated me. Back in the day, I started with Roger Power's Texture on DOS with a Roland MPU-401 interface. It allowed me to record small ideas and then chain those ideas together to form songs. So you would record the verse once and then insert it into the song chain any time you needed a verse. I naturally write that way, in fact many times all I have is an idea and no song to go with it. ACID continues this paradigm with recording small loops and keeping them in a library and then eventually using them in a song, painting verses and choruses wherever needed. So it just works the way I do. I support it purely for self-serving reasons. I don't like the way the other DAW's work and if ACID goes under, I loose my favorite tool. It's pretty simple and selfish really. ;-)

~jr

Message last edited on 10/29/2008 5:18:26 AM by JohnnyRoy.
Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: thirdnostril
Date: 10/29/2008 6:45:50 AM

"A lot of issues people have with Acid has more to do with their OS and equipment choices. Windows just gets unstable and most users aren't going to go shell out over a thousand dollars for a high-end audio production soundcard. I have seen a lot of users using Audigy cards and wondering why they can't get a better sound."

I use an Audigy, and I get great sound. Or I did, until I switched to a Vista PC. SONY never released a Vista patch, so I get jittery playback, crashes, and other problems, which I expect will disappear once I'm using Vista-friendly software again. So, isn't it SONY's OS choices you mean?

"I have seen, a lot and I mean a lot, that their DAW isn't a dedicated DAW but also their email and myspace machines."

I would be shocked if more than 10% of ACID users have dedicated machines. Thus, ACID should be made to work on multitasking PCs. They serve us, not the other way around.

"My favorite is someone I get a call from putting 512 more megs of ram in a 1ghz Athlon and wonder why it isn't screaming fast with the new memory. Trying to achieve jet speed in a Ford Pinto........."

Is it? Is that your favorite? Wow, thanks for sharing that.

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: thirdnostril
Date: 10/29/2008 6:48:10 AM

"appetizer and a burger at club 21 will cost you at least $100 for 2 people. That's without drinks or any side dishes or desserts.

There are even more expensive ones in New York. So, no I was not wrong at all."

Wow, I was right--not man enough to apologize.

You said something couldn't be done. I demonstrated it could be, and like a true weasal-boy, you move the goal line. Are you SURE you can't just go away?

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: barleycorn
Date: 10/29/2008 6:58:12 AM

> be careful if Reaper gets too popular. They may go the same way (eventually someone realizes that they have to pay the rent)

I don't think Justin Frankel has trouble paying the rent.

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: JohnnyRoy
Date: 10/29/2008 8:27:56 AM

> I don't think Justin Frankel has trouble paying the rent.

lol, having not paid much attention to Reaper I didn't realize that Justin was involved... I guess the rent and a few pizzas are more than covered. ;-)

~jr

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: deusx
Date: 10/29/2008 8:41:54 AM

I'm a man enough not to appologize for nonsense. I mean, aren't you taking things too literally and too seriously. The point is there are plenty of places in NY where simple crap like a dinner costs a lot more than an upgrade to acid and it's absurd to complain about a $140 upgrade.

Are you one of the people who watch Michael Moore's movies and goes: "Moore is lying, guns didn't kill 12 435 people this year, It was ONLY 11, 978". I mean come on. What difference does it make?

The actual number is not even a point. The point is that it's about 50 times more people killed by guns than in any other civilized country.

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: alltheseworlds
Date: 10/29/2008 6:21:54 PM

JR, I appreciate the time you've taken to analyse the situation with AcidPro and reply. Most interesting.

But I still think Sony efforts in terms of price, rewarding existing customers, communication, and application development time are woeful. I believe these factors combine to inject some doubt into existing (and potential) customers about Sony's interest & commitment to this product.

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: araefm
Date: 10/29/2008 6:45:47 PM

If you don't have a dedicated machine for a DAW, you can rely on the fact you will not have a stable music system for long. It takes a good amount of system resources just to run firewalls and antivirus apps. And frankly, the more you have running the more that will go wrong and destabilize a system. Computers are really cheap these days as it is. If you are a serious artist, a seperate machine is a must. Sure, if it's a hobby, do what you can with whats available.

Most companies as a whole have not supported Vista. The most people that have it is because it came on a machine preinstalled. There are many reasons why it has been avoided, but just think of it as WinME 2. With the new service pack, it has had a lot of issues fixed but still isn't what it should be.

As far as my last comment, it was showing how uninformed most users are of their tools and how they work, like yourself. Seeing as you are using an Audigy, you are just doing music as a hobby. Good consumer level card for basic use, but not that good for serious music production.




Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: PeterWright
Date: 10/29/2008 8:57:17 PM

> "But I still think Sony efforts in terms of price, rewarding existing customers, communication, and application development time are woeful. I believe these factors combine to inject some doubt into existing (and potential) customers about Sony's interest & commitment to this product."

I see it this way. Issues like rewarding existing customers, communication, development time etc. are looking at the past. Issues like Sony's commitment to the product are looking at the future.

Back here in the present, I have a great piece of software which cost me about $140.
I feel very lucky.

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: thenoizzbox
Date: 10/30/2008 6:55:10 AM

from PeterWright:
> Back here in the present, I have a great piece of software which cost me about
> $140. I feel very lucky.

I feel the same way. The only thing that bothered me is the lenght of time it took for Sony to come up with version 7. I would have appreciated a patch to AP6 to make it work on Vista. But as for the rest, the upgrade is a very compelling one in terms of features and is more than worth the price on its own. The 3rd party offerings just make the deal even sweeter. I really do not see how the upgrade pricing could be an issue except for those non-US residents that see completely artificial price boosting. Rest assured that Sony is not alone. Have you seen the difference in prices for Adobe's latest offerings depending on where you live? It's even worse than Sony and the base prices are a lot higher...

from araefm:
> Most companies as a whole have not supported Vista. The most people that
> have it is because it came on a machine preinstalled. There are many reasons > why it has been avoided, but just think of it as WinME 2. With the new service
> pack, it has had a lot of issues fixed but still isn't what it should be.

I'm sorry but to me this comment is just ridiculous. Most companies? Do you have a link to stats proving that? All the hardware in my new computer bought in July 2007 and most of my existing peripherals but one (an older scanner) had 64 bit drivers for Vista long before I got the machine. Other DAWs worked on Vista long before AP7 and all my other software worked without issue.

Also, I chose Vista willingly, both on my main desktop and my new laptop and I'm glad I did. I'd never go back to XP. And comparing Vista to ME is just ridiculous. ME was the end of the road of the DOS based OSes. A bloated piece of crap built on top of a house of cards. Vista is the continuity of the NT kernel (NT, Win 2000, XP and Vista). It's the most stable OS I ever used in over 12 years and 6 computers. I have it on 2 computers with very different configs now. No doubt that many people have had problems with it and they are the most vocal but just as many if not more I'm sure are having similar experiences as me. Also, it does need more powerful hardware to run well than XP. But that's par for the course and has always been true for any new major OS. Vista is a lot more graphically intensive than XP. Both my systems handle it fine.

I'm just happy that Acid is finally running well on my Vista machine. Now for inspiration to strike... ;)

Subject: RE: And so it begins...
Reply by: thirdnostril
Date: 10/30/2008 7:07:55 AM

"If you don't have a dedicated machine for a DAW, you can rely on the fact you will not have a stable music system for long."

I've had stable music systems for years without having a dedicated box. This is simply a false statement, perhaps based on anecdotal experience, but false nonetheless. It was only running AP6 on Vista that caused me problems. People who rely on their gear for their "pro" status (whatever that is) might say it, but I've never seen proof.

"It takes a good amount of system resources just to run firewalls and antivirus apps."

Yes, but if you have a 1.7GHz dual-core processor, a partitioned hard drive, and 3GB of RAM, it's not a problem. Really. If it's such a problem, how come AP7 is running so nicely (eventually) on my home Vista PC?

"And frankly, the more you have running the more that will go wrong and destabilize a system."

Right--which is why I take a moment and deactivate most processes when working on music. Takes a minute. Never heard of that? Funny, you being such a pro and all.

"Computers are really cheap these days as it is. If you are a serious artist, a seperate machine is a must. Sure, if it's a hobby, do what you can with whats available."

Well, actually, my Acer machine is very well made, and I'm quite serious when I tell you, you shouldn't present opinion as fact. "I wouldn't do it" is talking shop. "It must not be done" is a laughable attempt at creating a reality retroactively. If YOU need a separate machine, by all means, use one. I know how to keep a PC humming, so I don't need that.

"Most companies as a whole have not supported Vista."

My M-Audio MIDI keyboard? Free Vista patch online.

My Line 6 guitar modeling software? Free Vista update.

Photoshop? My animation and SFX software? Every other program I use except ACID? Vista update, or no update necessary.

What are you talking about?

"The most people that have it is because it came on a machine preinstalled. There are many reasons why it has been avoided, but just think of it as WinME 2. With the new service pack, it has had a lot of issues fixed but still isn't what it should be."

What Windows version has EVER been what it should be? That's a mile away from addressing the issue of why a simple Vista update--I'm not talking 64-bit, just SOMETHING--was not made available almost a year ago. XP has its faults and critics too--remember how it was wide-open to hackers until SP1? It had a service pack after just a few weeks! Sure, Vista is wonky, but that doesn't let SONY off the hook.

"As far as my last comment, it was showing how uninformed most users are of their tools and how they work, like yourself. Seeing as you are using an Audigy, you are just doing music as a hobby. Good consumer level card for basic use, but not that good for serious music production."

Let me get this straight--pardon me if there are typos, I'm laughing pretty hard--whether or not I'm a "hobbyist" or a "pro" depends on my choice of SOUND CARD? No matter how pristine the results, no matter how masterfully I may (I said MAY) play the instruments, no matter how well-written the song, no matter how well mixed it is, no matter how well I promote it, no matter how awe-inspiring the graphics on the cover are--NONE of that matters, because I use a sound card made by Creative Labs. Who have been making sound cards a lot longer than many of your $1,000 boutique manufacturers. Ever think that some people can't get good results with it because they don't know how to work it, or they just don't have a good ear in the first place?

By all means, drop some more pearls of wisdom on us. In this pre-election week, I need all the comedy I can get my hands on.

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