Good question! I was in your shoes only about 2-3 months ago, and contemplated the same decision you made--only the choice was between Vegas and Adobe, as I don't have a Mac system. After considerable debate, I chose Vegas.

I can't really tell you *why* I chose Vegas...I mean, there wasn't one specific reason. I think it was a total package type of a thing. I checked out the forum here, and saw the different learning aids available to Vegas users: The VASST training products, and Gary Kleiner's excellent DVD training set (which I have now owned for a couple weeks). The learning has been intense at times, and "obvious" at other times...as in "poof, the light bulb went on" and now I understand. But I would say that as much of my struggle has been with digital video concepts in general, and HD in particular. These concepts just aren't always straightforward, especially if one doesn't have a strong background in photography/videography.

So I guess all that I can really say to you is good luck on your decision. I have found the Vegas Pro product line (Vegas, DVD Architect Pro, etc...) to be an excellent product and easily capable of doing everything I know how to do, and about 1000 things more. So I would just recommend that you keep in mind one fact--the opinions that you read about each of these product are often very subjective, and expressed by people with *considerably* more experience than either you or I have. So the way I looked at it, by the time I'd get to the point where I'd ever worry about that stuff, the product would be very likely be on the next iteration...or even the one after that. So I simply wasn't as worried about some of these things as some others might have been.

Hope that helps. You are bound to get a hole bunch of opinions about Vegas and FCP here. So you better strap yourself in!

TB

Hi Thomas,

Sigh...where to start...

There's a multitude of answers to your question or situation. Truthfully, I would start by searching this forum as this topic has been discussed many, many times. People are often times overly passionate about their editing software choice and this being a Vegas forum, the debate typically leans in favor of Vegas.

My short answer is this. If you're worried about fitting in with the industry as it stands right now, FCP will make you sleep better at night. That said, I've made tens of thousands of dollars with Vegas since version 3 and never looked back. This is for corporate, legal, broadcast and consumer projects (including weddings). I'd have a hard time parting with Vegas because I know it so well and have been so productive with it.

Look around at the history in this forum and you'll learn a lot from both sides on this hotly debated topic.

Cheers (and good luck),

Mike

It really depends on where you're going to be in the industry. Your statement that you lost money by not having Protools is an indication of what you need to consider.
On the other side of the coin though Vegas isn't exactly a kings ransom, why not get that up to scratch and then see what materialises, if you need something else then make the investment when you can justify it. There's work out there that you'd need an over $100K edit suite to get, is that where you want to be. Vegas's low cost makes it a no brainer to have even if you find you need something else as well, don't think of it as an exclusive choice.

Bob.

Thanks thus far. I really wasn't looking for a smackdown. I know both are great products. I guess I was wondering where Vegas might come up short on a professional level, such as format, etc.

Yes, I will do research beyond asking questions on this forum. I was just hoping for an educated head start from you pros! My leaning is staying with Vegas, but I also do audio assisting in the "live" world, and until I learn the ins and outs of particular Yamaha mixers, I'm stuck assisting. So I'm getting real world examples of what I'm asking. My thought is that I might build my resume by mastering FCP. I'm not sure mastering Vegas will help me other than my own work like the weddings and smaller stuff.

So. I guess I'm asking about Vegas' professional shortcomings in the industry.

Thanks.

I agree with you Bob. I don't plan on putting life off because I don't have FCP. I'm a pretty cut and dry editor. Cut, Fade. Cue music.

If you are operating independently, as in shooting, editing and delivering one-off projects, then Vegas is a great choice. If you are having to interact and share projects with other post houses, then it would probably be best to use whatever NLE is common to them all. This is where Avid (and now FCP) have had an advantage. There was a time where everyone used Avid because that's what everyone else was using. This interactivity factor is no doubt why you lost out on jobs because you didn't have ProTools.

Bottom line, if you are taking their raw footage and editing and delivering a finished product, then Vegas is a great choice.

People use Vegas because of its audio capabilities; scripting; workflow advantages; quality DV rendering and workmanlike MPEG-2 rendering.

Unfortunately, while Vegas has been enhanced to keep up with HDV, AVCHD, Vista & Vista64, and other industry changes, none of these enhancements has managed to match the quality and stability of earlier Vegas releases. Also, the quality, quantity, and innovative factor of new features has waned considerably in the past two releases. This is the source of considerable disgruntlement amongst long-time users, and has been well expressed in this forum (and elsewhere) over the past two years.

If you do a LOT of video work, and you appreciate meeting and beating deadlines, and doing so with ease, then I highly recommend Vegas, with the caveat that if your work is going to be exclusively done with AVCHD (or even HDV), you might want to do a few test projects with Vegas before you 100% commit.

One problem you can run into is FCP has a lot of proprietary codecs. ProRes which is pretty popular with the FCP users only works with FCP. Native HDV m2t files can now be shifted into FCP via a cheap rewrapper but that only runs under OSX. HFS disks can be mounted under XP, that's a big helper. The big problem is getting anything HD rendered out of FCP to open in anything else, including Avid or Adobe.

Much of my work comes from FCP users, much of my time is spent fixing up audio horrors using Vegas and SF. My business model is pretty much that of a bottom feeder, I do the jobs no one else wants for the money. I can turn a dollar because Vegas is so quick. 10 projects rendered out last night while I slept.

Bob.

John and John are right.

If you're working on your own: Vegas. Nobrainer (because it's so fast to work with).

If you're working with other professionals: FCP or Avid (because that's what the world uses).

Automatic Duck just released Pro Export FCP 4.0 for exporting FCP projects to Avid and/or Protools, and it seems to work well.

Avid Media Composer is $2500 (although that includes $3,000 worth of first class 3rd party pro software from Bori, Sonic and Sorenson), and hardware interfaces are pricey (although if you receive files on disk, this is less of an issue). Runs on either PC or Mac or both (you can install it on as many Macs and PCs as you want and just plug in the dongle into the machine you want to work on).

FCS (Final Cut Studio = FCP, Motion, DVDSP, Color, etc.) is about $1300 from Apple, and maybe half that on eBay if you buy an ancient version + an upgrade (I paid $625). Needs a Mac, although a used Mac will be fine of course (although secondhand values are high for a reason).

Both Avid and FCP have high class DNxHD and ProRes codecs that give you 99.99% of uncompressed quality for not that much more than DV disk space and disk performance. These work really well, and this is a major major plus in my use.

Both of these codecs can be downloaded for free, and both can be read on Macs and PCs (ProRes can't be written to on a PC).

Well, I think is more to consider, just as with your camcorder purchase you had to go out and get filters, WA lens, tripod, so it is with your NLE.
In particular I use Cineform NeoHDV and Neat Video in my work mostly home projects, but get about one client a month. So the bill for FCP goes up considerably when you take in consideration the ad ons. My late father had a Masaratti and the headlight was $600 for one head light. So it is with Apple if you can afford to play with them, plan on paying alot for everything and in the end, it is more about your skill and I don't see any advantage of FCP even if the price was the same, I would still choose Vegas which I still use for audio even though I have other high end software

FCP and Protools will look better on a resume. FCP can handle DVCproHD tape decks as well as tapeless formats. FCP works with Kona and Decklink cards.

That said, the small business I work for started out with Media100 systems when Avid was everyone's first choice. M100 was very respected but it wasn't the top dog. Between then and now we've been able to build a business that pays 6 salaries, the lowest of which is $80k. We're able to buy equipment when we need it, pay large year end bonuses, and contribute large amounts to SEP IRAs for everyone. So I'd say you could build a prosperous business without having the name-brand edit system.

Even so, if you need something to brag about besides your own skills, being able to edit on FCP might help.

Rob Mack

"Both of these codecs can be downloaded for free, and both can be read on Macs and PCs (ProRes can't be written to on a PC)."

If I read that right are you saying ProRes can be read on a PC?

I though nothing outside of FCP could read it.

Bob.

Apple ProRes QuickTime Decoder 1.0 for Windows

Thanks.

Bob.

A few posters above summed up it nicely. Vegas if you are a one stop shop. FCP if you deal with others.