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Subject: Acid Pro 7 Development
Posted by: Cheye
Date: 9/14/2008 8:43:48 AM

I can't wait for the new version of Sony Acid 7. I'm so excited and bursting at the seams. I love the application and it has such great potential to be the best application for creative ideas and work flow. Not just a looping machine but a robust sequencer application that can do many things with such ease. The new features added to Acid Pro 6 were fantastic and heading in the right direction. All applications have bugs and problems and I would like Sony to work on the items listed below to improve their product in relation to my needs and hopefully others. Please feel free to add your own suggestions to help advance this great product...

1) Improved stability with other plugs and apps (UAD-1, Amplitube 2, Atmosphere, Waves and others)

2) Add a mute tool

3) the ability to drag any loop to any track

4) effective communication and upgrading of product

Once again I'm looking forward to the new release of Acid Pro 7 and hearing from Sony personal on my product suggestions and perhaps any information in regards to Acid Pro 7. This could take the form of a friendly comment on their development and excitement of their advancing product. I can only imagine how great it must be working on such a fantastic product and moving it forward to being one of the most under rated and greatest applications of our time. I can't wait to express my gratitude and spread the word on this superb product. I'm behind you 100% since the advancement of Acid Pro 6 was a huge leap forward. Thank you.

cheye






Subject: RE: Acid Pro 7 Development
Reply by: araefm
Date: 9/14/2008 8:19:50 PM

Keeping my fingers crossed, also! If I believed in the invisible man in the sky, I would be praying, too! Heh.

Subject: RE: Acid Pro 7 Development
Reply by: txharp3
Date: 9/14/2008 8:53:10 PM

I greatly enjoy utilizing Acid Pro 6 as my main DAW with Reason 4 rewired, and I do not have any plans to switch to another DAW until the release of the new version. The present version meets an overwhelming majority of my recording needs, and I am extremely happy with the product.

With that said, below is a list of a few items I would like to see included in Acid Pro 7:

1) A traditional pre-roll function for midi and audio recording.
2) Additional effect plugs-ins.
3) An improved mixing layout with effect sends.
4) Basic audio editing functions.

Hopefully, Acid Pro 7 will be release before the end of this year.

Ted

Message last edited on 9/14/2008 10:11:56 PM by txharp3.
Subject: RE: Acid Pro 7 Development
Reply by: AAAbatteries
Date: 9/24/2008 1:45:55 PM

I don't think it's gonna happen, guys...

If you're getting serious about your music production I would recommend you move on to something else.

Subject: RE: Acid Pro 7 Development
Reply by: JohnnyRoy
Date: 9/24/2008 1:56:09 PM

> I don't think it's gonna happen, guys...

Those who know... can't say.

Those who say... don't know!

~jr

Subject: RE: Acid Pro 7 Development
Reply by: DKeenum
Date: 9/25/2008 9:03:34 AM

What Johnny said.

Subject: RE: Acid Pro 7 Development
Reply by: kbruff
Date: 9/25/2008 10:13:19 AM

regardless...

The apps currently on the market --- have attenuated the influence of acid.

Subject: RE: Acid Pro 7 Development
Reply by: Rickms
Date: 9/25/2008 10:33:06 AM

Here we go again. Wishful thinking. The other things is what possibly would give you an indication that Sony cares or listens to what you want?

Subject: RE: Acid Pro 7 Development
Reply by: SHTUNOT
Date: 9/25/2008 12:05:27 PM

---Here we go again. Wishful thinking. The other things is what possibly would give you an indication that Sony cares or listens to what you want?--

Again...those who know...can't say.

This is how sony runs things. Thats it. Don't read into it too much.

Ed.


Subject: RE: Acid Pro 7 Development
Reply by: JohnnyRoy
Date: 9/25/2008 9:19:52 PM

> The other things is what possibly would give you an indication that Sony cares or listens to what you want?

Well let's see... I started with ACID 3 and we asked for MIDI/VSTi support and we got that in ACID Pro 4. Then we asked for better MIDI support and we got that in ACID Pro 5. We asked for a full fledged DAW features and we got them in ACID Pro 6. Has anyone using ACID Pro 6 gone back to ACID Pro 4 lately? (it's like the stone age of MIDI) I'd say that Sony has listened to us in leaps and bounds and I have no reason to believe that they won't continue to do so.

Not everyone gets their favorite features implemented in any software but in the past, Sony has come here and started threads asking what we want and they have delivered a good set of the features that were requested. I feel that this is a pretty good indication that they are listening. They may not be moving as fast as we would like them to... but they do listen and what's more important, they won't break the workflow that has made ACID easy to use for most of us.

There is nothing worse than a few feature that is "bolted on" and feels unnatural just to say they have it. Sony continues to implement new features "within" the ACID paradigm. That's why I stick with ACID.

~jr

Message last edited on 9/25/2008 9:21:39 PM by JohnnyRoy.
Subject: RE: Acid Pro 7 Development
Reply by: guitacid
Date: 9/25/2008 10:43:46 PM


"...and what's more important, they won't break the workflow that has made ACID easy to use for most of us....."

Well said Johnny!

I started with 3 too. The only midi I use is the sync feature to lock my Adrenalinn pedal to Acid. By far the most used icon for me is that big red Record button. I ike Acid because it's clean and easy to use. Even for klutzes like me. And i need not mention how great it is to preview loops to see how they'll sit in the project.

I don't want to learn a different app from some other company. I'm too busy creating. I want a seamless path from my head to my guitar to my recording app. I'm not impressed by fancy graphics or truckloads of useless features. But i am impressed when i finish a creation and sit back and say i enjoyed that.

Subject: RE: Acid Pro 7 Development
Reply by: Rickms
Date: 9/26/2008 4:18:17 AM

All the features you guys asked for are standard for just about any full-fledged DAW. Sony simply decided at some point to take ACID towards a more of a rounded DAW in order to compete with its competitors that had far exceeded ACIDs capabilities.. You guys give yourselves too much credit.

Message last edited on 9/26/2008 6:03:18 AM by Rickms.
Subject: RE: Acid Pro 7 Development
Reply by: b4dawn
Date: 10/1/2008 7:43:25 AM

I have sent Steve three emails.

Each time he told me that they are working on it but there is no time for release, so hang in there.

I trust Steve, he brought me into the program. Perhaps, as in all industries, they skip a year to get ahead of the curve. Thus, burying the competition.

Sonor seems not only to have have updates but totally different products a few times a year. I don't know how this would be possible, even with all the talent they have working there.

So, I trust Steve, I didn't get terminated and if I'm giving false hope here, I'll look like an ********. So, I believe it will be soon.

Message last edited on 10/1/2008 7:49:42 AM by b4dawn.
Subject: RE: Acid Pro 7 Development
Reply by: Patrick@Denman
Date: 10/1/2008 7:39:50 PM

I have to admit that I still come back here in the hope that I'll see something concrete about AP7. Still, the SOS. Yes, we're working on it. No, we can't give you a release date.

I've started doing all of my new projects in REAPER. Getting used to it. Since I started (2 months ago), they've already released two updates.

At this rate, REAPER will have everything that AP has by the time AP7 is released. (It already has a ton of things that AP doesn't, but is missing some of AP's cooler features.)

Subject: RE: Acid Pro 7 Development
Reply by: JohnnyRoy
Date: 10/2/2008 4:27:17 AM

> At this rate, REAPER will have everything that AP has by the time AP7 is released.

And just think... when REAPER get's really popular maybe it too will be bought out by a giant company (maybe Steinberg!) and that light and nimble team will fall victim to big corporate politics and then releases will slow to a crawl as the corporation calls the shots. (anyone remember that little team at Sonic Foundry that was all over their customer's needs?)

What REAPER is doing is only sustainable as long as they stay small. You'd better hope no one notices them.

Also what REAPER is doing indicative of open software development where you release features as they are completed. So let's say typical software has have a release cycle of one year and on average there are 6 new major features. What REAPER does is release one feature every 2 months instead of 6 features every year. They are not developing any faster, but they are giving you the impression that they are. You just don't get to see all the new features of AP7 until it is publicly released. That's not to say that beta testers are not getting new features with each new drop and getting excited about them.

The REAPER model only works because they don't charge you. If Sony added new features to ACID every two months when should they charge for a new version? Every 2 months? After 12 months? Who is going to pay for 1 new feature when 2 months earlier you have 5 new features for free since the last paid version? You see, the business model doesn't work. It is only because REAPER is shareware that it works.

~jr

Message last edited on 10/2/2008 4:29:11 AM by JohnnyRoy.
Subject: RE: Acid Pro 7 Development
Reply by: drbam
Date: 10/2/2008 6:50:32 AM

"You see, the business model doesn't work. It is only because REAPER is shareware that it works."

Well I do know a bit about "business models" and with all due respect, this comment is grossly oversimplified and in my view, quite ill-informed. JR you are starting to sound like an "excuse maker" for Sony and its not very becoming.

Peace

Subject: RE: Acid Pro 7 Development
Reply by: Patrick@Denman
Date: 10/2/2008 10:37:02 AM

> And just think... when REAPER get's really popular maybe it too will be bought out by a giant company (maybe Steinberg!) and that light and nimble team will fall victim to big corporate politics and then releases will slow to a crawl as the corporation calls the shots. (anyone remember that little team at Sonic Foundry that was all over their customer's needs?)

Indeed, you're describing precisely what our beloved Sony has done to ACID Pro development, and sadly it is possible that a similar fate may be in store for REAPER down the road. (If that does happen, I'll just have to look elsewhere once more.)

Your characterizations of REAPER's development practices doesn't reflect much (if any) actual experience with the product, and the fact that Sony has done nothing for so long doesn't add any credibility to that argument either. It's not just that the REAPER boys are frequently releasing new features - they are frequently releasing MAJOR new features, to an extent that I don't think their version numbering scheme makes much sense at all.

You can try to make this all seem like it's a series of nickels and dimes, but it's simply not the case. It's positively exciting to see those guys crank out the new stuff, and the user forums are lively and engaging, with tons of great how-to discussions and a welcoming atmosphere. With ACID Pro, on the other hand, it's like watching paint dry - except that it was dry almost two years ago and I'm getting tired of staring at the same old paint.

As I mentioned earlier, there are still quite a few things that ACID Pro has which REAPER does not. But for quite a while, REAPER has had a number of things that ACID does not, such track templating, scripting, and a much more sophisticated routing architecture (to name only a few things). They've also got beta versions for 64-bit Windows and OSX. But for me the best thing by far about REAPER is that it is incredibly lean in memory usage compared with the bloated beast that AP has become. And for me, someone who does almost everything with MIDI, my workflow is simpler and faster with REAPER. It actually takes me less time and fewer clicks to do most things.

But feature shoot-outs are always a matter of taste and preference. I would have been happy to stay in AP if I was really convinced of Sony's commitment to the product.

Surely you're not suggesting that instead of looking at alternatives we should all be a good little flock of sheep and patiently wait while Sony does little or nothing! Frankly, I'm totally bored with the repeated mantra that there will be a new release. I don't give a damn about their "cone of silence" policy, I want proof.

There is such a thing as customer loyalty, and there is also such a thing as customer stupidity - and maybe I'm actually in the latter case with respect to Sony: the fact that I'm on this forum at all is an indication that I haven't quite thrown the towel in on ACID Pro 7 yet, although it's damned close. But the reality is that AP7 would have to come out very soon and show an absolutely revolutionary set of new capabilities for me to seriously think of upgrading. And it would have to be pretty aggressively priced, because REAPER certainly is.

Then again, I've probably wasted my time on this rather long post, because I doubt that Sony is even paying attention. I would LOVE to be proven wrong.

Subject: RE: Acid Pro 7 Development
Reply by: Rickms
Date: 10/2/2008 1:22:32 PM

I think the case is that we all want to be proved wrong but as months go by it just seems less likely that anything is actually going to happen. Also, unless Sony has been updating requirements (features) throughout the development lifecycle (bad practice) whatever they release will probably be behind the feature curve of its competitors. A bad release is going to be its last release.

As far as Reaper goes, just about every update appears to me to have a few major enhancements.



Message last edited on 10/2/2008 1:24:31 PM by Rickms.
Subject: RE: Acid Pro 7 Development
Reply by: JohnnyRoy
Date: 10/2/2008 2:54:58 PM

> Well I do know a bit about "business models" and with all due respect, this comment is grossly oversimplified and in my view, quite ill-informed. JR you are starting to sound like an "excuse maker" for Sony and its not very becoming.

It was not my intent to make excuses for Sony's lack of updates to ACID. I was just responding to the comment that the REAPER team releases major new features each month. I will be the first to admit that there are some serious bugs in ACID Pro 6 (like cycling through the takes on a loop recording doesn't work) that should have been fixed in a patch but were not. Let's hope that ACID Pro 7 makes good on those.

I was using Sony as an example but I was explaining development for any company that makes major releases and charges customers to upgrade. I'd be interested to know how a business model of constant new features would work. Perhaps as a subscription model? You pay an annual fee like Antivirus software and it includes all updates?

How were you thinking it could work? (you can send me a personal email if you feel it's too off topic for this forum but as a software developer myself, I am sincerely interested in what you have to say)

~jr

Subject: RE: Acid Pro 7 Development
Reply by: Patrick@Denman
Date: 10/2/2008 4:42:28 PM

Thanks for the response, JR. I have to admit it does make me feel a little less insane to hear some of that same frustration in your words over AP problems! Despite my ridiculous tendency to rant and rave (man, I really think I need some medication), I must say that I do have considerable respect for your knowledge of the product, and I do have a copy of Instant ACID (the V5 edition), which I have found very useful indeed. Just thought you'd like to know. :)

Unfortunately I can't answer your questions about how REAPER's business model works. Beats me. All I can tell you is that the trial product is fully functional and never expires, despite the fact that the nag screen (which appears only once every day) tells you that you should pay for it after 30 days. It's only $50 for a non-commercial license, $225 for commercial. I suspect that tons of the users are just using it for free, so it's not a terribly aggressive pricing/revenue model by any means.

What I do know is that they have done at least one OEM deal with an audio equipment manufacturer - sorry, I can't recall who it was or what specific gear it was for, but I'm pretty sure it was some kind of advanced keyboard device. It involved an embedded Windows OS with REAPER. So that will certainly help to provide some steadier revenue. And there could very well be a bunch of other OEM deals either active or in the works. I suspect that's where the really good money can be found - so that may be the key to their sustainability.

From what I know, the dev team is still pretty small...you only hear of three guys (although there could very well be more), but they are quite evidently working flat out on the product, seemingly all the time, so I assume they must be paying the bills.

The thing that seems so key to it all is the community around the product. The users really seem keen to support it, endorse it, and work with the developers to help it evolve. Even if the revenue model is different, Sony (and other vendors) could definitely benefit from a little of the same culture-building. The ivory tower approach just doesn't engender that same synergistic atmosphere, and it's a pity because (as we know) music people are very passionate about their stuff.

- Pat

Subject: RE: Acid Pro 7 Development
Reply by: aafuss
Date: 10/9/2008 4:27:17 AM

Sony Australia's official catalogue, "PULSE" in its latest issue mentions ACID Pro 7.

One of the new feature is a "Elastique" audio editing function.

Subject: RE: Acid Pro 7 Development
Reply by: Rickms
Date: 10/9/2008 5:56:51 AM

I wonder what that function can be, I wonder if it like reaper or tracktion where you simply grab the end of clip and fit it the measure and it maintains pitch?

Message last edited on 10/9/2008 5:57:23 AM by Rickms.
Subject: RE: Acid Pro 7 Development
Reply by: genosam
Date: 10/9/2008 7:38:13 AM

I think SONY is aimed more in to Video production, pay attention in newsletter/press release section, it's all about Vegas or other Video creation family products and not a tiny word about AP7. I like AP6 a lot for its loop/sample flexibility, for the simple use of the software although they say; "everything's easy once you know" and when they say Cubase is very complex...it's just an excuse for laziness. I think Sony people have to keep us up to date and tell us what's going about AP7 otherwise they're gonna loose many of their previous devotees including me. I really don't wanna say goodbye to Sony, but my music require a newer DAW, more flexible - more complex if you wish, I need to do score/note writing what I did in software, but AP6 can't do that and using my hands it's gonna take ages while producers hurry me and always give me the dead-lines. I think it's not fair to keep AP6 users unaware looks like they do not care about us. And all those things I've read in here about "secret" development of new software just fairy tales. People want the new release of AP7, they're waiting for it for long time that's why they creating such kind of stories, but nobody, nobody absolutely knows what's going on and if goes on anything at all. Again, would be very petty to say goodbye to Sony but they forcing me and I'm sure other people to do so.
Regards to all.

Subject: RE: Acid Pro 7 Development
Reply by: guitacid
Date: 10/9/2008 2:43:30 PM


Hi aafus, I'm in Oz. Where do you get Pulse from? Hardcopy or on the web.
Thanks

Subject: RE: Acid Pro 7 Development
Reply by: aafuss
Date: 10/9/2008 4:15:50 PM

Hardcopy-issue 21

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