Editing Blu Ray .M2ts file from rip

cliff_622 wrote on 8/2/2008, 11:37 AM
First off. I work for the company that created the Blu Ray disk I'm ripping and the company owns 100% of the content on the disk...so there are no copyright issues with this thread. (we obviously can't sue ourselves for editing our own retail sold disk)

The disk is a documentary, was AACS protected and was ripped to the hard disk using AnyDVDHD. (july) The file is AVC with 5.1 audio. (around 20megabit variable 1920x1080i)

It plays back fine on many software players. (no issues outside Vegas)

Running Vegas 8b and I get en error when dropping it into the timeline:

AppName: vegas80.exe AppVer: 8.0.0.217 ModName: msvcr80.dll
ModVer: 8.0.50727.762 Offset: 00008a8c

I get this error even if I brows for the file and try to simply get it's properties inside Vegas explorer.

POW! crashes Vegas. This same thing happens on two other machines running XP SP2 and Vegas 8b as well. Other files from the same disk also cause same problem. (only in Vegas)

Anyone have a clue?

Comments

Avanti wrote on 8/2/2008, 11:47 AM
how are you ripping the files from the disk?
cliff_622 wrote on 8/2/2008, 12:02 PM
Using the AnyDVDHD "rip" feature. It identifies the disk, removes the AACS encryption and rips the entire disk to the hard drive. Inside the new folder is the entire Blu Ray Disk tree structure with the video in the "stream" folder. It's in .m2ts like normal and plays back off the hard drive with many software players including Nero with no problem.

I want to make it 100% clear to the Sony forum admins that we do own this material completely that I am speaking about and that its not a "Hollywood" Blu Ray disk. (although it was made in a large mastering house)
owlsroost wrote on 8/2/2008, 12:25 PM
Have you tried installing the VP8 beta 'm2tsplug.dll' from this thread - [url=http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=602979]

The download instructions are about a third of the way down in one of the posts from 'ForumAdmin'.

Tony
blink3times wrote on 8/2/2008, 12:30 PM
Use TSmuxer (free download) and demux the audio/video to 2 separate files and see if that helps. (Although I should point out that the audio will be in a AC3 format which Vegas will not import directly. You will have to break that further to wav files.

If TSmuxer can't demux then for sure there is a problem with the file.
cliff_622 wrote on 8/2/2008, 1:29 PM
New .dll "helped" the problem. Vegas no longer gives error and craches. However, when previewing file, Vegas will hammer the hard drive almost infinetely. It "seems" its parsing through the file looking for something and just skeeps going for several minutes untill I stop it. Tried with several files including 800meg AVC 2 channel AAC audio ripped from same disk. Still doesnt work

Grabbed TSMuxeR GUI 1.8.4 - Software sees all files fine and muxes and demuxes beautifully. However, Vegas will not play resulting files. Tried on 2 "patched" (with new .dll) Vegas Clients (2 different PCs)....same result. Endless searching through file with hourglass. ( I even tired "remuxing" file A/V into new file...no help)

Oddly enough. Ulead Video Studio will work with these same files...but we all know that's a crappy prog.

What does Ulead know about these AVC files that Sony doesn't?

Any more ideas?
cliff_622 wrote on 8/2/2008, 2:25 PM
Interesting update: (I hope Sony reads this)

Using TSMUXER,...I demuxed these files into ".TS" stream files. Here is the key!

I choped the first test file with TSMUXER to be only 10 seconds long. I dropped it into Vegas,..Vegas took about 20 seconds and it played!

I chopped the second test file in TSMUXER to 30 seconds long and dropped it into Vegas...Vegas took about 45 seconds to read it and it played!

I chopped several files into ".TS" format video only files. The longer the file,..the longer it took Vegas to parse through it before it allowed the file to be added.

It's taking Vegas a very long time to get each .ts file property before allowing playback. Vegas wants to read the whole damn file from begining to end before it deliveres it's properites.

This MUST be a Vegas bug.

Also,..it's the only program that thinks these files are 29.97 PROGRESSIVE frame files 1920x1080.

This is incorrect...they are actually 29.97 1080i files. (I dont think that 1080P 29.97 frame files are even possible on Blu Ray)

Vegas is misadentifying the file after it searches through it. I would guess that a 1 hour file would take over 1 hour to insert into Vegas this way. (over 1 hour to retrieve properties)

Ulead will accept this 7 gig file in it's timeline in about 45 seconds without demuxing

Very interesting

blink3times wrote on 8/2/2008, 3:26 PM
"This MUST be a Vegas bug."

Yes... there are bugs that's for sure. I have mentioned this before. I have also mentioned that Ulead will do things fine that Vegas can't.
p@mast3rs wrote on 8/2/2008, 3:35 PM
"Using the AnyDVDHD "rip" feature. It identifies the disk, removes the AACS encryption and rips the entire disk to the hard drive."

This is STILL ILLEGAL according to the DMCA. If you work for the company, then you should have no problems getting the footage you need from that company.
cliff_622 wrote on 8/2/2008, 4:01 PM
It's a completely different division of the company in a different state. My group was not involved in the authoring of the Blu Ray. I guarantee, that department is not going to sue my department...lol

Yes,..I can and probably will need to get the DigiBeta HD masters to make a quick sales demo BDR. It's a big company and that's a slow process for my group... I was hoping this way would be easier and much quicker.



p@mast3rs wrote on 8/2/2008, 4:41 PM
Cliff, I certainly meant no disrespect. I am just trying to look out for you and cover your ***. Wish I could offer some additional help.
cliff_622 wrote on 8/2/2008, 4:50 PM
N/P,..it's all good.

If I was doing something that could get me in trouble, I wouldn't be doing it on a public forum like this. I'm just bummed that Vegas can't handle this without jumping through a dozen hoops.

It's going to take 2 or 3 weeks for me to get the original materials and then I have to sort through allot of HD tapes to make this demo...pulling it off our Blu Ray is soooo much easier.

Damn
john-beale wrote on 8/2/2008, 5:09 PM
I think it's pretty much always true that the fastest and most cost-effective way to rework finished content is to rip the final disc instead of trying to find the original masters, certainly it is true in my experience (working on material I've authored myself with the masters in the same room.. but on slower media: tape). It's sort of ironic that it is SO much more easy and practical to break the DMCA (although with the consent of the copyright holder it can't really be illegal in any meaningful way.)

I've heard that Adobe Premiere was completely rewritten shortly after I abandoned it for Vegas around 2003, and many people have recently recommend it to me. I'm wondering if it does this sort of thing better.
blink3times wrote on 8/2/2008, 6:09 PM
This is not exactly a copyright thread. We have so many of those threads already. Cliff's a big boy and I believe he is aware of the laws and I would suggest it's his business. This thread is dealing more with a glitch in the Vegas system.... can we not concentrate on that?
cliff_622 wrote on 8/2/2008, 8:07 PM
Agreed. There is no copyright issue with this thread. I assure you. (ever seen that Coke comercial when "Coke Classic" asks a lawyer to sue "Coke Zero" for "taste" infingement...lol)

Back on topic - I believe that there must be an easier way to get around this glitch.

Vegas works great with .m2ts files from my Sony SR12, 1080i material. What is it about these Blu Ray .m2ts files that makes Vegas struggle so much. Especially when other progs play the same files fine.

Are there flags that Vegas is looking for in the stream that other progs dont care about?

Why is Vegas parsing through the files so deeply before showing the properties?

Why does it think it's progressive when it's interlaced. (other progs identify it correctly)

Why will it play and display properties for a Blu Ray 90 second "chopped" file fine,...but not the whole file when you brows for it. Or any others like them?

Is there some lingering marker from AACS that Vegas doesnt like? (and other progs dont care?)

????
cliff_622 wrote on 8/2/2008, 10:00 PM
Mystery solved!

I answered my own question; "What makes my Sony AVCHD camcorder .m2ts file different than my Blu Ray .m2ts file"

Answer: "AVC Level"

I'm researching exactly what AVC level is but I believe is somewhat related to AVC Main/Advanced profile standards. Sony AVC camcorder files have a native "level 4.0" setting. My Blu Ray files have a native "level 4.1" setting. (I believe 4.1 has higher bitrate possibilities)

Anyway...I put the Blu Ray file into "tsmuxer" and removed the audio and muxed to plain .ts format. I dropped the 4.1 native level to 4.0 and muxed to a 6 gig video-only file.

Vegas loves the file and treats it perfectly. Loads fast and runs nice.

I dont beleive changing the level from 4.1 to 4.0 actually changes the compression. I "believe" is just a simple flag/marker change. "tsmuxer" flew through the file,..couldn't have crunched any real calculations in it.

Solved! Whew!

Thanks to all,..especially for the "tsmuxer" advise.

On a slightly different note,..I believe Canon is releasing a new 24megabit AVCHD camcorder soon,..I wonder if it will make "level 4.1" AVC .m2ts files? Sony,..any info on future AVC level 4.1 (or higher) playback?... or,...Is there a known limitation with Vegas editing AVCHD files with a level higher than 4.0? Is that something inside the "m2ts.dll" issue?