Vegas and the future

DJPadre wrote on 1/16/2008, 1:14 PM
I luv the app, i liek what i can do with it.. now so more than ever with stupid fast render speeds

ok, but lets look at Vegas as a workhoarse... no thats not a typo..

its a rough handyman per se... not very good looking, sexy in its own way but not handsome.. rugged in an intense "you know you want itt" kinda way
For the most part its reliable.. it does the job. but when asked to play with new toys or other people, its prety stubborn.
Its set in its old ways and as its competitors move forward with new engines and tricks and features, it sticks to what it knows and improves on them as best as it can..
Now this is a good thing, becuase he's perfecting what he knows to a pointof saturation.. in the ned however he can only go so far..

the problem with this is that he's not evolving..

Now lets see how he can evolve to fit in with the times...
what real world scenarios can we come up with which vegas can improve upon?

Lets make this a fun thread instead of stressing about what it cant do. yes we ARE focussing on the cannots, but nows the time to do it considering 8b is releasd and to my eye, its a half hearted effort with the real issues unresolved.. those "real issues" i refer to are elements which are available in almost evey other applicatoin from consumer through to "pro" end stuff..

as an example..

-Slowmotion - Sorely needs reworking. As it stands you cannot use slowmotion with progressive scan footage, be it SD or HD. Its totally unnaceptable and unusable. Guy buy out Dynapel or someting, but do SOMETHING
-Frame tracking- ie lock pan and crop point to point on frame
-AC3 rendering- still single threaded
-AVCHD rendering presets for SD
-AVCHD single file output unmuxed or if they insist on keeping the Dolby Digital encoder, at least let us use the normal encoder, not this hack job for AVCHD... dont forget these new formats are supposed to improve the product. I see no improvements in the DD encoder within teh AVC encoder
thers afew others that we've all written abotu at one tim eor another, but these would be the prdomint needs on my list...

what are yours?
.

Comments

Cliff Etzel wrote on 1/16/2008, 1:26 PM
My only real request currently is to have a native ability to darken the Vegas Interface like PPro does.

Not a Johnny come lately attempt at changing the Windows Theme to make the interface darker - but a genuine ability to lighten or darken it.

To be honest - That's all I can think of for the time being. I'm so impressed with what VP8 does (especially with Gearshift) that I don't have any real requests.

Sound Forge is another matter...

Cliff Etzel - Solo Video Journalist
bluprojekt
farss wrote on 1/16/2008, 2:16 PM
EDL import and export, import has always been a no show, export still has problems.
Native VST, the new audio plugs don't into Vegas.
Fix how the thing captures video, can't recapture video from JUST the project file.
In general, rewrite the whole thing so it's timecode based, it's still an audio application with video tacked on but it doesn't 'understand' how video works, it doesn't understand audio for video/film either, not at the pro level.

Obviously rewrite the video plugin interface, vfw is past it. Once that's done then others can write plugs that meet specific needs, out of the box the competition doesn't do much either. It's the might of the 3rd party support that gives gravitas to the app. We're denied access to all the serious plugs with Vegas, both video and audio but I guess most here would be happy just to see the video side fixed.

But here's the problem as I see it, you can't have your cake and eat it. Many of the things Vegas can do that others can't is also the reason others can do things that Vegas can't. I don't believe you can merge the two requirements and get one uber NLE. So maybe we should just be happy with what Vegas is, that's no reason to knock it, we just need to accept it's limitations along with it's strengths. If you need what it can't do add an app that does it to your toolbox. My only real gripe is, it'd be easier if it was easier to move projects in and out of Vegas, it'd be easier to sell Vegas not as a replacement for other NLEs but as an adjunct to other NLEs. A sale is a sale after all.

Bob.


Kennymusicman wrote on 1/16/2008, 2:58 PM
Add Blufftitler into it natively - just license it and add it. THat's text solved (and other 3d shapes via .eps)

Add generic remoting as a full duplex path

64bit..lol
mcvap wrote on 1/16/2008, 3:27 PM
Frame tracking- ie lock pan and crop point to point on frame
Add-Envelope for key frame on event sync to event pan/crop-will speed up key framing/lock efx on mask.

it'd be easier to sell Vegas not as a replacement for other NLEs but as an adjunct to other NLEs
Definitely not ,I want to watch Oscar Films that edited on vegas 2009.

Ready templates for 3d track motion,video efx,media generators.

Upgrade for video efx,media generators.

Hardware that interface-convert direct to architect-CANOPUS ACEDVio

-realtime rendering - edius.

Vegas is my livelihood I want to see it on the highest broadcast studios - it deserve that ,for us and for the new coming editors.

After 5 years SCS TIME IS ARRIVED-WE IMAGINE IT IS POSSIBLE.






4eyes wrote on 1/16/2008, 3:53 PM
LEAVE Dolby selections in AVCHD output, nothing wrong with it.
AVC/H264 encoder works excellent.
GaryAshorn wrote on 1/16/2008, 7:10 PM
I mostly agree with Bob. Timecode understanding. Be frame accurate with the rest of the world. Make it work with BD, control my decks and match to source tapes. I do what Bob says, I use it with my other editor for what they do. And the plugin and title issues are a bust for me. My two cents.

Gary
pmooney wrote on 1/16/2008, 8:35 PM
I'll second the motion for better VST support. WAVES has some seriously good plug-ins that just won't work with Vegas. I'm sure its the same with other high quality plug-ins.

Damn shame, especially since Vegas cut its teeth as an audio app before it became a very good at video.

It would be nice if it could render to Flash right off the timeline, too.
DJPadre wrote on 1/16/2008, 8:51 PM
"LEAVE Dolby selections in AVCHD output, nothing wrong with it."

Lets agree to disagree......
GlennChan wrote on 1/16/2008, 10:06 PM
EDL import and export, import has always been a no show, export still has problems.
Bob, I'm curious what kind of problems you are having with EDL export?
DGates wrote on 1/16/2008, 10:22 PM
While there are plenty of great ideas/suggestions for making Vegas better, I don't see it happening. Vegas just isn't a priority to them like FCP is to Apple.

fwtep wrote on 1/16/2008, 10:25 PM
ok, but lets look at Vegas as a workhoarse... no thats not a typo..

Um, actually it is a typo.
farss wrote on 1/16/2008, 10:35 PM
There's a random 1 frame error, at least in PAL. So an out point that should be 10;13 can become 10;12. Not a huge problem but if you've got to check every point by eyeball on a long project might get a bit tedious.

I haven't tested it thoroughly. I was following up on a complaint about the problem and just tried it with a simple project and saw the same issue. I haven't tried it with V8, it may well have been fixed.

Bob.
DJPadre wrote on 1/17/2008, 12:23 AM
Hoarse is not a typo coz vegas is like the rough and tumble cowboy who makes his way across country doing jobs here and there but never actually settling down to any one town... hes rough aroung the edges, knows his shit, does most of his work without a problem.. doesnt like strangers coming into his domain though except for the very few exceptions... isnt very handsome but is sexy in a provacative sorta way...
Everyones scared of the dark stranger but deep down they know he means well.. save for his enemies..
Because of his "hoarseness" people misconstrue his intentions and do not bother to get to know him. Those that do get to know him discover that he's one of the better characters out there

Premiere is more like the gambler, only knows one thing, doesnt get out much, stuck in his ways but knows EXACTLY what hes doing.
Plays very well with the right deck but give him the wrong hand and he falls on his face.

Edius is the barman. tries to be likable to everyone but noone really understands him unless theyre into the hard liquor

Liquid is conninving whore who acts liek your firned on the outset, tells u what u want to hear then shafts you in the back as she works around your weaknessses to bring you down. Shes very talented, but gettin gher to reveal those talents is another story altogether

Avid is the Mayor. Thinks he knows everything there is to know about everything. Misguided by his own self importance, be believes everyone loves him but deep down they loathe him. Most of his followers are blind to the outside world and thoe that are not, would not dare overstep the boundary of shared loyalty
The mayor does his work in a very black and white mentality with not many opportunities to expand his thinking

FCP is the farmer. Much like the cowboy, he knows alot about many things.. being slightly better off than the cowboy, his education alllows him to expand his productivity as the crop sees fit.
Can have his moments, has an acquired character where you either ilike him or you dont
Moreso you may like him, but you dont like the area he lives in...
TGS wrote on 1/17/2008, 1:55 AM
That's pretty funny and clever. Even with typos. That's okay, funny and clever wins over typos
4eyes wrote on 1/17/2008, 7:08 AM
DJPadre,
You recommend to remove features that I (and others) happen to use everyday. So, enhancements/improvements to the program definitely yes. But removing features no. These are all features, some use them and some do not.
I happen to use these features all the time. Especially for making avchd w/dolby for streaming etc. Many other uses, like using the videos in authoring programs, demos, teaching.
Ex: -AVCHD rendering presets for SD / -AVCHD single file output unmuxedTo output avchd without audio uncheck " include audio. To render standard defintion avc/h264 use mp4 containers.
DJPadre wrote on 1/17/2008, 1:25 PM
aaaaaahhhhhh but 4eyes, hers the thing, i didnt say remove it, i said ditch the studio encoder and replace it with the pro encoder, or better yet, give us the option to use the existing Vegas AC3 encoder while rendering AVCHD... that i'd be happy with.

As for unmuxed AVCHD video and Audio, i didnt say remove it, but at least give US the option to decide how its muxed..
This way i can i can use DVDit Pro HD without puking or render out a variety of video outputs/codecs all the while using the one and the same AC3 encode without having to do multiple ac3 renders
(ie render AVCHD with Ac3, then render SD MPG + an additional AC3 render)
If i can render 1x Ac3 file then my 2 Video codec renders, then im saving rendering time as well as ensuring that there is consistancy across the board, irrespective of the format

IF however the AVCHD Ac3 encoder was working with a Dolby True HD encode, then and ONLY THEN would i accept that this is a requirement of the AC3 codec, because True HD requires a scan of the finished encoded video to create the audio file. (that is, a 15k mbpsAVHD video file with DD True HD would ALSO have its audio at 15k mbps. but the encoder scans the video and MATCHES the audio output to the video.
I honestly dont think we'll ever see TrueHD in Vegas... which is trully sad..

Aside from what it doesnt do with AVCHD and ac3, as its stands, this way of working is cheap and nasty. Its a compromise to the mastering routines and configurations the engineer sets within the piece as the Ac3 Studio encoder doesnt offer half of what the Pro (original Vegas AC3 encoder) does

Whether it works (ie whether you can hear somethign or not) is not the issue, the issue is efficiency and consistancy of which this is not.
MUTTLEY wrote on 1/17/2008, 4:02 PM

Sorry but can't pass on a thread like this without making my one request yet again:

MOTION TRACKING

- Ray
www.undergroundplanet.com
Kennymusicman wrote on 1/17/2008, 4:53 PM
vector paths for tracking motion. (move a few frames, click a dot to mark "cente", move a few frames, click a dot etc) , if it can't track motion, which would be nice indeed.

z-plane depth

batch converter ala soundforge, but for video (obviously..lol)

speed improvements on some factors (sorry, but nero easily outpaces dvda and vegas for rendering to dvd by a long shot)

more media generators (that lightning one is a little...dire?)

built in de-shaker
Guy S. wrote on 1/17/2008, 5:09 PM
I might as well add my $0.02 also: Use all 4 CPU cores -- not just one -- when playing back from the timeline.
Kennymusicman wrote on 1/17/2008, 5:12 PM
I just checked on mine on a HD veg - it used all 4 cores at 50% each core
PixelStuff wrote on 1/19/2008, 6:44 PM
I'm still hoping to see motion tracking too. Something I've been requesting since before Sony purchased everything. I can't imagine what's so hard about adding this feature. Unless (now that I think about it) it's related to the same reason why we don't have a decent deshaker and other plugins that require access to pre/post frames on the time line.

Maybe when they introduce Vegas 64 they will take the opportunity to rewrite the software to allow for better plugin support and things like a motion tracker.



farss wrote on 1/19/2008, 8:07 PM
I have a simple request, it's been a pain since V4 and it's a regular request from many and it should be dead simple to do.

Better file handling!
Why can't we tell Vegas where we want things and it remembers. Projects get saved here, renders go there, temporary things over somewhere.

Current job is 1,000s of segments and many of them need a trip to SF to fix the audio. I'd like to keep the takes in their won folder but oh no, Vegas must have them in the same folder as the source files. What a pain.

Bob.
Laurence wrote on 1/19/2008, 8:33 PM
No kidding! The way it is is frustrating on big projects.
fultro wrote on 1/19/2008, 8:55 PM
" better file handling" - I second (third , fourth , fifth , etc.) that emotion
- sick to death of this issue on large projects - -