DVD duplication isnt even close to that number last I saw. Face it guys, big corps like Sony and those invested in BDA, do not want indie film makers to have easy access to this technology. As long as they can control the licensing amounts, they will be able to keep out many of the better films which obviously cuts into their bottom lines.

This is what the people wanted.

Now they've got it.

Enjoy!

This is what the people wanted.

Yup...

I knew it, I knew it, I knew it.
I knew this was coming..... rah, rah...... blu ray wins..... and we've friggin' well lost.

Buckle in ladies and Gents because it's my belief is that this is just the start. Wanna author Blu Ray.... sure you can... but you will pay dearly for the opportunity.

You do notice that these fees are starting to show up AFTER hd dvd has stepped down... how honest of them.

Well.... you people wanted it... you people got it.

man not even a week in to their victory those evil sony suits have destroyed my well thought out business plan of distributing all my video to clients via bluray,, oh wait .. they don't quite know what it means , gota a playstation3 ?

Hold up. Say I shoot a video in high-def and I want to sell it, that's all, no fancy logos or endorsements. Is it legal for me to sell my own videos that i burnt onto the bluray disc format?

"the sky is falling!!!!" Gee, HD DVD fanboys waste no time. There has been commercial fees for DVDs since the beginning, a fee for the DVD logo, MPEG2 royalities,....... the world will be no different with BluRay commercial fees, but I doubt if the BD group cares if you produced limited 1-50, possibly upto 100 discs. Mpeg2 folks won't refuse any fees if you may send, but they are not the RIAA in their operations. But think this out, just to burn 20 disks with 20g-25gs, time at 6x is still a serious effort, so, your current dvd move BD will probably not be facing "fees", unless they think you are copying copyrighted content in a serious way.

Hold up. Say I shoot a video in high-def and I want to sell it, that's all, no fancy logos or endorsements. Is it legal for me to sell my own videos that i burnt onto the bluray disc format?

Yeah, well... that's the $64,000 question isn't it. Of course you get a lot of those with an undefined format. But then that MUST have crossed the mind with all you BD fanboys!?

I mean I can't believe you all stood up and mindlessly yelled "go Blu ray!" without carefully thinking about it.

. the world will be no different with BluRay commercial fees, but I doubt if the BD group cares if you produced limited 1-50, possibly upto 100 discs.

That remains to be seen Apit.

I do find it really neat how they avoided talking about these fees while HD DVD was around though.

apit, I hardly consider myself an HD-DVD fanboy, and I am quite upset by the demise of HD-DVD because it removes a stream of revenue. Let's face it, Blu-Ray is much more restrictive and less friendly to content creators. It isn't just the commercial fees. You MUST add thier brand of content protection (AACS). It isn't an option if you want to replicate. As of now, you must use a $50,000 authoring application to replicate true BR discs (Blu-Print or Scenarist), and pay close to that for the stamping master.

BD-9 may be an option, but there is no reliable way to create a disc that will play across all players yet (maybe ever). This is not a mistake, but a calculated effort on the part of the BD consortium. Why do you think Blu-Ray Architect hasn't been released? That, and most Red Laser Replication plants don't yet have a reliable way to create a master, because the crappy applications we are using to create AVCHD discs (which is a trademarked term, by the way) don't have any way to create a replication master. Duplication is an option, but even then it may not play on some players.

Most of the people who are happy that Blu-Ray won are owners of a Blu-Ray machine. Most don't have to author content, or if they do, a simple menu with buttons and overlays you can't turn off or customize are okay because they just want to watch their kids pop outta momma again. My clients don't care about that, they want to know why I can't put an FBI warning in front of their main menu, when I could do that and much more in DVDSP for HD-DVD.

Yeah, Blu-Ray won, and we got p0ned. Congrats.


By the way, I looked through many of the BR supporters profiles, and SUPRISE, most of them haven't posted on anything except BR for many months. So who's a fanboy? If you're going to post, maybe you could contribute instead of gloat.

Blink, surely, you don't think HD DVD on HD DVD media for commercial sale would be any different? Remember the DVD group leader -Toshiba- is still aggressively going after small rep houses now for those small DVD runs, AND you think Toshiba would not be asking for fees for HD DVD? Anyone, DVD, HD DVD, BD still are faced with MPEG2 fees for commercial sales, same for ACC, Dobly,..... fees. Thats one of the reasons Sony and Pan created the codec for the cameras and PS3, was to simplify licensing.

Nothing new really. If you want to sell a CD with mp3s on it encoded out of Vegas you owe fees. Same goes for mpeg-2 etc.

How will that impact wedding videos. I guess it depends on how it's looked at. From some directions they're not considered as "for sale", rather you are "work for hire". Still cannot use trademarks etc legally.

Producing an indie movie and offering it for open sale is another matter. Sony Pictures are funding 'indie' productions but I guess their's still a question about just how indie you are when a big studio is providing the dollars. When you're doing and funding everything yourself you can pretty well do and say what you like. Once you are using someone else's money that can and does change a lot unless you've got serious muscle in the business.

Bob.

Blink, surely, you don't think HD DVD on HD DVD media for commercial sale would be any different?

Sort of a moot issue now isn't it? HD DVD is gone... what we have to deal with now is blu ray

What we know about Blu ray is that they can do just about any thing they want because a minimum standard has yet to be written.

Do we know that BDMV burning is a permanent feature open to us? No.

Do we know that DRM is becoming a major issue? Yes.

De we know that the machines are capable of being firmware up graded to EXCLUDE certain BD formats? Yes.

Do we know which way Sony is going with all of this? No.

Believe me Apit.... I HOPE I am wrong.... but I have a sinking feeling that we have yet to see the end of the "licensing fees".

Lets be real, DVD3x was a short cut. Nobody that I have met or talked to have produced any +100 HD DVD discs on pc HD DVD burners in a "run". HD DVD and BD rep houses have producing disks for a while, with fees, and the average claim by most posters are that BD was more expense per unit for small runs.

Why are you surprise that bluray gets a lot attention in this forum? Vegas 8 permits burning from the timeline, not for HD DVD(even if there was a real burner out there in the fall07). Vegas works with the PSP, PSP works with PS3.

"You MUST add their brand of content protection (AACS)." Well, nothing personal, but if you are a sophisticated content provider, the BD virtual machine is a great feature for you, or just write some advance Java controls in the menus. If you have industrial( fortune500) or government customers, you would not want any thing else?

If you are heavy invested with HD DVD content with your industrial clients and don't want to change, then I suggest that you make sure your clients are as committed to HD DVD before buying up as any "future" needed players and burners and a contract that protects the HD DVD tech.

"Believe me Apit.... I HOPE I am wrong.... but I have a sinking feeling that we have yet to see the end of the "licensing fees".

Blink, Sony has been tight fisted in the past, like UMD, tho the market is still not really understood. Since BD group, not Sony, controls the general licensing, and the bulk of manufacturers of hardware players and burners are in the group, their interest is not the same as the studios. No doubt if the studios and the MPAA/RIAA (joke) had their way, no one would be able burn lengths greater 40 minutes in a single play.

Since most players support multi-codecs, don't be surprise if the Studios start producing very cpu intensive codecs and the general market will be pushed towards a dumb down format. How much menu control in the basic burning app will be more of the cost of a java player simulator. Now, that all the third party software houses know where the market going, more are likely to that a chance on the java player simulator.

Why are you surprise that bluray gets a lot attention in this forum? Vegas 8 permits burning from the timeline, not for HD DVD(even if there was a real burner out there in the fall07). Vegas works with the PSP, PSP works with PS3.

That's like saying MS XNA works for windows & X-Box, so Sony & Nintendo must not care for it.

Sony has done more pushing to sony-oriented devices since they took over. The reason we couldn't burn HDDVD video from the TL is because Sony didn't want us to. The reason we have PSP presets is because Sony wanted us to. No Wii presets even though that plays video from memory cards. No X-box presets.

Yes, there's fees for DVD's, but I can still make an indy movie on DVD, make a run of 1000 @ customflix. Nobody's going to hunt me down & demand more $$. Can the same be done with BD? Unless it's a yes, then it's not like DVD are currently.

You do notice that these fees are starting to show up AFTER hd dvd has stepped down... how honest of them.

How utterly ridiculous. Fees were set over a year ago.
HD DVD had similar licence fees. Just like Microsoft, MPEG LA,
Nothing is any different than it was two days ago, except now progress can be made because the nearly dead horse that Bill Gates blew millions on is finally dead.

How many apps already announced that they offer BD support? How many apps already have BD support? How many burners are already out there? Did the price jump since this morning? Nope. Because the deals were already in place. Part of what killed HD DVD, BTW, is their licensing fees. Why do you suppose no one was jumping on the HD DVD bandwagon? It's not rocket science.

The consumer voted. No one bought this election. In spite of anything else that anyone might think, the consumer voted, and in the end, the consumer won.

BTW, Toshiba didn't "step down." They were flatly knocked on their asses by a significantly superior opponent.

One month ago (January 20) I reluctantly entered one of the retarded flame war threads to claim that there were monopolistic corporate efforts at play here (my only real objection).

One of the Blue testosterone flame throwers said the following:

no corporate entity even has a significant ownership here. Monopolistic behavior seems to exist only in the mind of the more conspiracy oriented individuals. Watch out, the Aliens are coming, get your tin hats out. .......trying to lure me into the flame war with insults.

Not falling for this childish ploy I asked the following question:


Who gets the licensing fees if Blu-Ray is the sole format?

That was the final post in that thread. He never responded.

John

The consumer voted
============
That's right and they voted their wallets by choosing SD DVD. Look at the next generation with their video Ipods, cell phone appendages, and small portable screens. They don't seem like they care about Hi-Def as much as us old f**ts.

John

How utterly ridiculous. Fees were set over a year ago.

Ahhh... I see... so you're saying that arenel (the op) is speaking of an email that's a year old?


How many apps already announced that they offer BD support? How many apps already have BD support?

How many players have full BD support???


Why do you suppose no one was jumping on the HD DVD bandwagon? It's not rocket science.
DRM., that's why. The BDA has made the studios happier with increased protection. Let's HOPE we don't get stuck dealing with it.


The consumer voted. No one bought this election. In spite of anything else that anyone might think, the consumer voted, and in the end, the consumer won.

Wow are you off base here or what... we're not even talking about Toshiba.

Nice attempt to shift the subject, but the topic is "Licensing fees for BD."

So no one was talking about it. Does anyone talk about fees for MPEG LA? Do you even know what they are? How they work? How they're paid? When? How much? Why? You pay them, so can you tell everyone how they work? Do you care?

Not having seen the mail, I can only assume it's FUD. The OP of this thread also posted in other forums, and that's the only other reference I can find. On the flip side, I can see where BDA agreed to fee schedules on Sept 1, 2004, and announced the fee schedule in April of 2006. Hardly anything new.

You said: You do notice that these fees are starting to show up AFTER hd dvd has stepped down... how honest of them.

HD DVD *is* Toshiba, unlike the idiots that think BD is only Sony. Toshiba (aka HD DVD in your post) did not "step down." They were handily handed their collective ass by the masses.

But...conspiratorialists will find JFK's second bullet or Jimmy Hoffa's ill-gotten gains in BD somewhere, I'm quite sure. Just like they did when DVD came out, and just as they did when DV was launched.
BTW, that guy behind the grassy knoll? That was *really* Neo working for Bill Gates. Bill Gates and Atsutoshi Nishida made a secret agreement back then that th Matrix would survive in Redmond, if Neo was their pawn.

If that's not good enough, then the next angle is how BD causes cancer of the retina when viewed at a 90 degree angle through an open replicator port.

Blink, as I stated before, as a DSE stated, BD discs have in the production for a while, and there are small rep houses for small numbers. They wouldn't be producing disc in limited small volumes without the legal licensing fees in place.

Does Sony collect a royalty for the BD design from the BD group licensing? Don't really know the details---- but I would think they would, even if just to fund future BD research. Sony patents for media should generate revenue also.

"How many players have full BD support???" ha, that funny, an olde from the HD DVD agrument. lets be real, (not to be cruel), but have you ever exceed DVD menu control specs by having too options? Do you know anyone who has exceed DVD's control spec by size of options? Since BD is more ++++DVD, what individual is going to be tasked by your "How many players have full BD support???"

I don't believe that any of this will have much impact on those of us primarily doing one-offs on BD-R or AVCHD disc on DVD+-Rs.