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Subject: AP6 shut-down frequently
Posted by: Vondo333
Date: 1/17/2008 9:49:10 PM

Hello,
First let me say that I really do like AP6.0d. For the exception of not being able to edit the sound files without using Sound Forge I am reasonably happy with it.
Now to the problem.

AP6 seems to be having a conflict with something, and I don't understand what.
Scenerio: There are 15 or so audio tracks playing, the "ASIO/WDM buffer size" in the Firewire 410 is set to 512. There is 1 midi track engaged going through the "Midisport 8x8s",

As I am listening to what has just been recorded in the midi track I will hear slight crackling sounds. I check to see if there is clipping on any of the tracks. There is none. So while the song is playing I zoom into the tracks to see a midi position that might need changing and I hear crackling and a slight break up in the song play (hesitation). So I stop the song and a error pops up declaring that AP6 is experiencing an unknown problem and that it will have to shut down. Sorry for the Inconvenience.

The computer is dumb down to the bare essentials for music only. I have Pro Tools M-Powered 7.4cs2, Ableton Live 5.0.1, Sound Forge 9.0c, Rebirth RB-338 ver. 2.0.1, Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 8.0b, Vocal Forge 1.0.6.1, RS Editor for Roland RS-70 Keyboard, Sonar 4 Producer Edition, I have Sony plug-ins, and Antares auto-tune 5 VST.

I know that it is possible for any one of these items to cause conflict, but I am hoping that someone can narrow it down because of experience with any of these items.

By-the-way, I don't use any softsynths. I have the MV-8000, Motif Rack ES, and the Emu Mo'Phatt. The Roland RS-70 is controller 1, and the Keystation Pro 88 is controller 2.

Here's to hoping someone has the cure.

Thanks for all your help, In advance.

Servon

Message last edited on 1/17/2008 9:54:31 PM by Vondo333.
Subject: RE: AP6 shut-down frequently
Reply by: mobiledjs.com
Date: 1/21/2008 1:01:58 AM

I have recently experienced a similar problem running AP6 in Vista 32-bit Ultimate and Firewire 410

I suspect the culprit is the Firewire 410 as I was using beta drivers and I do remember it crashing previously. Fortunately they just came out with official Vista drivers. It seemed the problem required a complete reboot to fully fix once it happened otherwise it would keep happening. If you are using XP then I would check for an updated driver. Make sure you uninstall the previous software and reboot first. I will stress test these over the next week.

Also If you are using VST the problem could also be asio direct monitoring. I read somewhere that acid in previous versions did not support direct monitoring. There is a checkbox in the m-audio mixer to disable this. I run Ozone.

Also Ableton Live loves to hog the ASIO so make sure that you set it on 1,2 or 3,4 if you are using both programs at once.

Program conflicts may also be an issue.

Message last edited on 1/21/2008 1:03:42 AM by mobiledjs.com.
Subject: RE: AP6 shut-down frequently
Reply by: Vondo333
Date: 1/21/2008 4:30:23 PM

Thanks Mobiledjs,
I concur with you that the Firewire 410 seems to be the culprit in this problem. Yes, I do have to reboot the computer to stop the noise. I did download the newest driver for the FW 410 and at 1st it did not work. I had to do several uninstalls and installs before it loaded in properly unfortunately the problem still exist. I do understand that the Latency setting is suppose to be at 512 or lower, but when I set it to 1024 I no longer get the static and sputtering when I try to move something while in playback mode, also believe it or not it records extremely well while set to 1024.

Now, I am not settling for this because I know that the latency set at 1024 "and everything is fine" is not fine. I will most likely invest in something different like MOTU or ECHO or something like that when I can afford to.

I only bought the FW 410 because I thought that I would have a great time with Pro Tools MP 7, but that crashes also.

I don't run any other programs with AP6, because I haven't learned how yet.

Anyway thank you for the info, and advice.

Servon



Subject: RE: AP6 shut-down frequently
Reply by: Kennymusicman
Date: 1/21/2008 4:43:55 PM

look around for a "firewire" fix- it's a known issue on some pc's with either a certain chip (eg, texas instruments) or drivers. MS did a hotfix for firewire sometime ago, that may be of use. worth googling. M-Audio stuff is cheap, but really quite good value for the money.

Subject: RE: AP6 shut-down frequently
Reply by: Zacchino
Date: 1/21/2008 8:29:55 PM

If you guys are talking about the famous firewire fix for XP SP2, here's the link :

[url]http://support.microsoft.com/?scid=kb%3Ben-us%3B885222&x=14&y=13

Subject: RE: AP6 shut-down frequently
Reply by: thirdnostril
Date: 1/22/2008 3:12:32 PM

I have a USB interface, and even when I'm not using any interface, some soft synths just cause ACID to crash, just loading them.

Subject: RE: AP6 shut-down frequently
Reply by: gunga
Date: 1/22/2008 3:52:27 PM

No firewire here, but same frequent crasher syndrome. I haven't used Acid Pro (latest update now ) for several months, but I have installed Komplete 4 and Kore 2 since then. I'm only running 2 tracks of Kontakt and Akoustik Piano, then 6 tracks of audio and loop stuff. It first occurred when I was using the Media Manager, but now any interference with playback (adjustments on the fly, zooming, fader movement) brings a crash. Awful.

I also installed the Kore 1 controller(which is not connected in this case) and the Novation Zero SL, the later of which I'm using as a hardware controller in AP6.

I'll put in my system specs soon, but basically a Dell Dimension 3000, P4 2.8GHz,
2 Gig Ram, Delta Audiophile 2496.

I used Acid Pro 5 quite a bit on my last CD without this problem.

Din

Subject: RE: AP6 shut-down frequently
Reply by: alltheseworlds
Date: 1/22/2008 7:34:39 PM

I have similar problems with AP6. It likes to crash if I try to use the vertical scroller during playback. It also tends to crash if I manually stop the song before the "audio tails" have finished sounding. I can't use Absynth 2 at all, gives an instant crash, although I'm blaming NI for that one.

I've just got into the habit of saving after every edit.

It is undoubtedly the most bug-ridden app I regularly use. It's way, way behind the other major DAWs I use (such as FL, Orion & Sonar), and is the sick cousin of SoundForge & Vegas which are both rock-solid on the same system.

But I still love AP ! Great app. Hope it gets more stable in release 7.

Message last edited on 1/22/2008 7:35:45 PM by alltheseworlds.
Subject: RE: AP6 shut-down frequently
Reply by: mobiledjs.com
Date: 1/23/2008 8:44:27 PM

I'm getting the problem a lot more frequently now. I actually am more convinced it's both a combination of the the audio device and the "scrolling issue". It does happen when I am more aggressively editing music and listening at the same time. It seemed to happen a lot less in XP. I am forced to manually save everything after every change or else I could potentially lose something.

I had a problem for a long time with the mouse DPI. I was using several microsoft mice and even logitech and was rather annoyed and frustrated. I finally found a mouse that allowed for much better DPI adjustments which makes it a lot easier to work inside of programs scrolling in and out. The mouse I am using now is the Razer Lachesis. There are a few bugs with it jumping occasionally but this is probably due to the ExactMat that I am using. My taskbar icon is now white and considering there is a scrolling bug present in Acid 6 this could be making the issue worse. The program ran rock solid before when I was simply using ASIO4ALL with the Realtek HD. I have recently experienced a blue screen after these errors happen. I also have have an Alesis io 26 that I have tried which seems to spawn a blue screen as well, except this issue seems to be related to the firewire some xxxx1384.sys file. Their drivers have not been updated since July 07!

Also with Vista there is an issue regarding MIDI timing. I was able to halfway fix this issue somewhat after finding a Microsoft Hotfix online that affects jitter and timing. Apparently not a lot of people know about this fix. My problems were mainly affecting MIDI timing in Ableton Live but the same issues carry over into Acid. Microsoft has to actually email you the hotfix b/c it's still in testing.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/943253

Below is the Bluescreen that I keep getting. If anyone knows about a specific driver or hotfix that might make this go away please let me know.

Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: BlueScreen
OS Version: 6.0.6000.2.0.0.256.1
Locale ID: 1033

Additional information about the problem:
BCCode: 1000008e
BCP1: C0000047
BCP2: 824B1FE8
BCP3: 8306E808
BCP4: 00000000
OS Version: 6_0_6000
Service Pack: 0_0
Product: 256_1

Subject: RE: AP6 shut-down frequently
Reply by: mobiledjs.com
Date: 1/24/2008 4:44:22 AM

I am now back to using the native Realtek HD Drivers by using Microsoft Sound Mapper. I still hate the idea of carrying around a brick (Firewire 410). The sound is better using this than when I use either Windows Classic Wave Driver or ASIO4ALL. In fact it sounds just as good if not better as the M-Audio. With the Microsoft Sound Mapper I can open up multiple programs without it griping about the driver already being used already. My guess is that these other programs/drivers are using some type of makeshift wrapper, since they do not have direct kernel access. Since this was made for Vista it may actually have a kernel interface not to mention being on the PCI bus. I feel the the Firewire connections are quite limited compared to the PCI Bus, other than having more inputs/outputs obviously. It appears that the Windows Sound Mapper uses MME as a default. Ableton made the recent mistake of using DirectMusic by default in a version 7 update, instead of giving users the choice of MME. This resulted in MIDI timing issues, which they are still trying to get straight now.

Subject: RE: AP6 shut-down frequently
Reply by: Vondo333
Date: 1/24/2008 6:51:54 AM

Thanks Zacchino,
I will check out that link when I am able.
I am convinced that since I boosted the buffer size in the FW 410 to 1024, and I should not have to put it that high to get some stability, that there is a serious issue that M-Audio, Sony, and Microsoft should put their heads together and figure out (thats gonna happen).

Anyway I appreciate all you guys help and input. It will help me to narrow down the problem, and possibly fix it. I'll keep you informed as I'm sure you all will too.

Servon

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