Could be A LOT better!

Email updates, newsletters, deals, specials... Other companies do it. Vegas IMO is well worth the money. I would love to see marketing take a more aggressive approach.

Probably their greatest marketing asset are this forum's devoted members. This group here though is but a minute sample of the Vegas community. Of all the local Vegas users I know personally only one of them visits here, the rest just don't do forums, period.

Bob.

hey bob,

are you counting just metro people again? there's some of out here in the bush you know.....

btw, just ordered my v1. now we'll see if the horses roll....

talk soon,

leslie

I have started seeing more Vegas ads in the trade pubs - or maybe I'm just noticing them now.

At some point Sony may want to start marketting the consumer end on more consumer outlets (it would be nice to see a Movie Studio ad on TV the way MS has pushed some of their products) as I'm sure a lot of money could be made consdiering how many moms & dads are buying video cameras - Maybe a larger presence in Best Buy and the like, right in with the camcorders.

I know I started on Screenblast Movie Studio, which got me hooked and then moved up to the full blown package.

No matter what our opinions might be, the real judge of their marketing I suppose is the level of sales of this wonderful software, and from the informal reports coming back from NAB and other sources, there is no doubt that Vegas is now far better known and acknowledged than it has previously been.

When I first found Vegas (Version3) it was a huge leap forward in my abilty to get my ideas onto tape, and that has continued to advance. From recent developments it seems a whole new lot of editors are going to appreciate the sheer class of this brilliantly designed piece of software - there may have been times when it seemed to be being overtaken, but my hunch is that it is about to resume it's role as a leader in reality, if not in sales, and I hope it's marketing becomes as assertive as this reality deserves .....

One question is this: I purchased Soundforge 9 when it was first available and installed it and registered it. But why do I keep getting "E" mails (2 so far) from Sony about purchasing Sound Forge 9? You would think their computer would click me off and say don't send this guy the "E" mails about purchasing Forge because he already has done so.
JJK

i don't get any e-mails for anything. Get ones from VASST though, that's nice. :)

I wouldn't say they need more adds but they need more free copies out there, like Adobe whores Premiere. Give free copies away with every POS Sony camera (even still camera!), get it included on all Sony PC's, etc. They won't make money from selling to a couple hundred big companies but from the millions of people out there who don't know any better on what to use. And Adobe is doing a good job at getting that market.

Sony Creative Software's sales were up 248% last year, it seems that whatever marketing strategy they're using is working.

Word of mouth is the best advertising and I do a lot of that as I'm sure most people that use their software are doing.

John

Word of Mouth gets it to individuals.

But not necessarily to "houses", un less the worker bees have some pull.

Had the same problem with my programming language of choice. I can get a product out there in half to a quarter of the time with Borland's Delphi, but they want me to program using MS stuff.

Which I won't. Which is why I'm in the pipeline to move elsewhere.

I have been -- and continue to be -- highly critical of their marketing.

Marketing is not "marcom" (marketing communication). The latter is what people often think of, namely the advertising, direct mail, trade shows, etc. Those are certainly things done by the marketing department, but they are often done by outside contractors and are generally fairly routine, mechanical chores (although they can be lots of fun to do).

The real core of marketing is positioning, namely understanding how your business (and your products) interacts with competitive products in the marketplace. The product manager -- the quarterback of the marketing process -- should have a strategic mind that constantly assesses where the product line is in the positioning matrix and where he/she wants to take it. It is very much a game.

The key to the game -- and this is where Sony fails -- is understanding how to build and change opinions. This starts with identifying the key influencers in each market segment. Who do people listen to? Who do they follow? Word of mouth, as already mentioned, is key, but contrary to what you might think, that is seldom simply the result of the product being great and people telling each other about it. Instead, opinions are changed as the result of extended contacts with key influencers. These people are usually pundits, writers, consultants, key industry figures, celebrities, and anyone else who people have grown accustomed to following.

The other key is alliances. Again, Sony has done a poor job. Sure, there are a gazillion alliances that Sony hardware has made over the years, but I am talking about product and marketing alliances that directly affect Vegas. Most important among these are alliances with other software companies, in particular those that make plugins.

Many people have correctly pointed out in these forums that Vegas should not attempt to cram every imaginable feature into one interface. However, there are hundreds of features that could be included via a plugin interface. That interface exists, and there are plugins. But the number pales in comparison to what Adobe can list. Some say that this is because Vegas already has some of the features that Adobe's products can only offer via plugin. Even when that it is true, the Vegas equivalent is usually not as fully functional or as complete. Other times people say they don't care because they don't need that feature offered by some plugin. That misses the point. Even if you don't need any feature offered by any plugin, the very existence of all those software companies building add-ons for a product is what builds the market, and makes that product defensible in that market space.

It is easy to kill one company, even a big one; it is virtually impossible to stop an alliance of 100 different companies.

Finally, some have said in this forum that you can't get such third-party support (e.g., plug-ins) until you are a leader, and because Adobe and Avid are the leaders, they get all the support. Again, this is incorrect: This is NOT a chicken and egg problem. The support can be manufactured, without a leadership position, simply by providing sufficient "care and feeding" of these software developers. How? You assign one or more people as liaisons; you create a professional, well-documented development kit; you hold regular development conferences; and you provide marketing assistance for your partners, including booth space at key trade shows.

I could go on a lot longer, but this is not meant to be marketing 101. My point is that Sony should be able to absolutely kill the competition: Vegas has a better underlying architecture; the workflow is fantastic; and it has an unmatchable trump card: Vegas is part of Sony, and Sony makes the video cameras.

Adobe and Avid can't match that.

Sony Creative Software's sales were up 248% last year, it seems that whatever marketing strategy they're using is working.

When I worked at a UPN affiliate UPN held a contest to get the biggest "scores" (to put it simply) on their launch shows during the year "Enterprise" was launched. One of the categories was "station growth". Our station had a near 200% increase in viewings/ratings for the premiere of "Enterprise." Why? Our rating during that time period was near nill, so a rating of 5 (I think that was it, still a huge amount below everyone else though) was amazing statically. But that doesn't mean we were doing that much better, 200% of 1000 is 2000. So who cares when all the other stations get 40000?

Yes, sales growth is not particularly relevant. Market share IS.

And if you want the ultimate measurement, it is relative market share (your share relative to the market leader).

very well thought out and articulated post, johnmeyer, re the role of marketing, you hit it right on the head... (esp. re positioning and strategy).

ken

They should hire an editor to make kickass-slick video spot for Vegas and Acid and Sound Forge.

They don't have to broadcast it, just make it available online. Edited in Vegas. Putting up a new feature list is one thing. Letting people see what Vegas can do is another. Let them know they will lose nothing by switching to Vegas.

Ken,

Thanks. A long, long time ago, in a faraway place, people actually used to pay me good money for marketing advice. Perhaps if I charged Sony, they would listen.

John very well said.

BK? Eh . . ."They don't have to broadcast it, just make it available online." - My way of thinking that IS broadcasting - no?

And I'd go a bit further too.

Online Casting has got to be a real leader in getting your product to a potential buyer. I can search for against keywords and anything that is on the web will come to me. It is a dream solution for many things. For just its shear ability in reducing retail-resistance it HAS to be the best - ever! Oh yeah, and the Cost-To-Reach in comparison to other forms of market placement, is a complete dream that would have knocked the boots of Vance Packard.

Recently we had those remarkable Online tutorials for CineScore. I find them instructive AND a tool I can point a Newbie or somebody wanting to make that decision to purchase a SONY Media product, at, allowing the potential purchaser to buy. How good is THAT?? When does a tutorial stop being a "teaching-aid" and becomes a marketing tool? Never. It IS a marketing tool. Sony have now got them in place.

I suppose the point I'm making is that that there are a myriad ways of getting market-share<>selling-product. What we are observing is a company extending themselves as much as they can.

RE: Sony Vegas Marketing...

Overall among all consumers my impression is that Sony's a bit tarnished as a brand, producing poor to high quality products at generally higher end prices. Yes they offer some stuff no one else does, but they also take a beating for products like their game system that was released with a host of problems. For the average consumer wanting entry level video-related software, Sony doesn't stand out as a first choice, but is blasted by the likes of Roxio, Nero, Cyberlink and so on. They desperately need full-on marketing to get into this race rather than just feature rebates to give away the product. I can't point to just one, or just a few measures -- they need it all.

Besides Sony's lacking brand awareness for software, Vegas itself hasn't been positioned to go head to head against Adobe. It's not that the product can't go head to head with Prem/Pro, but in the workplace unlike apps like Acid, it doesn't have Adobe's presence. Again a full out effort, even if it means giving Vegas away along with spending the cash for hand-holding support from Sony's reserves could make that happen.

What Vegas does have going for it is that it's an enthusiast product. People simply prefer using it to the alternatives. While added sales are certainly possible from the enthusiast market, I'm not sure increasing marketing efforts focused on this demographic would have the same bang for the buck. Today anyone interested will find Vegas recommended in on-line video-related forums, but this great awareness doesn't do a thing for the newcomers who don't yet know where to look for entry level software, nor does it do anything for the pros and semi-pros who might agree Vegas is a decent enough program, but can't see enough reasons to jump ship from Adobe. I'm not even sure how many video folks would be surprised if Vegas just slowly slid into oblivion, given the lack of any sign other than marketing hype that Sony Corp is really committed.

I'm not even sure how many video folks would be surprised if Vegas just slowly slid into oblivion, given the lack of any sign other than marketing hype that Sony Corp is really committed.

I have no comment. I just thought that deserved to be repeated.

"given the lack of any sign other than marketing hype that Sony Corp is really committed."

You weren't at NAB, were you? You didn't see the big-wigs from Sony corp hanging around the Sony Media Software booth, did you? If you had been there and witnessed what I did and overheard the conversations that I heard, then you wouldn't have made a statement like the one above. You presented the above as a statement of fact, when from my point of view, it's just an uninformed opinion.

It seems like Vegas bashing has become the new, favorite forum sport. Vegas has been very good to me, my clients are thrilled and Vegas, along with a few third-party tools, has allowed me to make a very good living.

John

Vegas has been very good to me, my clients are thrilled and Vegas, along with a few third-party tools, has allowed me to make a very good living.

It has been good to me too. As I have said in this thread and elsewhere, the engineering is Madison is awesome and the product is great.

However, the reason I am so critical of their marketing actually includes the fact that they seem to think that hosting big parties at trade shows is sufficient, by itself, to constitute a marketing program. I do not doubt what you saw and heard, and I stated in another thread that I was glad to hear it.

The reason why I continue to be so critical is that I have personal experience, with my own company whose products were marketed by Xerox. The relationship was very similar, and the story I see playing out here almost exactly mirrors what I went through from 1986 through 1990. Since that time, I have consulted with many small companies, some of whom I was able to help land big contracts with F500-size companies. There is a way in which these relationships can work, but it requires that the small company become the guerrilla marketer, and let the big company blow its bucks on mostly useless advertising and trade show events, something they know how to do, but which seldom help develop markets or move share. Instead, these marketing expenditures mostly help people who are already in the fold feel good about themselves and their choice of product, something at which Sony has apparently succeeded in doing.

Market share can be increased by either grabbing new markets as they open up (the shift to HD provides this opportunity) or by wresting it from existing competitors. The latter is expensive and difficult, unless the competition stumbles (as Motorola is currently doing in cell phones, as the Razr life cycle ends). It can be done, but it requires marketing programs that are strategic, comprehensive, and well-executed.

John,
As much as I respect your point of view, I'd ask you to respect the fact that you're viewing this subject in a fairly encapsulated space.
Vegas was seen in so many trade booths that were/are not related to Sony in any way, that it was almost comical. One couldn't walk down a complete aisle and not see Vegas being used to show plugins, stock footage, monitor quality, keyboards for editors, before/after shots, RAIDs, HUI devices, hardware, desktop systems, etc. Vegas is/was all over the place.
While Sony certainly sponsored a party that VASST started a few years back, that alone was a huge statement. We went from 8 guys sitting around a table in a Chinese restaurant to over 1000 people, in just a few years.
I was part of the round-table private meeting that John Cline witnessed, and while it's not permitted to tell you who was at the table (and came of their own volition, not because Sony asked them to) I can say that three of the five guys that came to the table are responsible for 10's of billions of $$ in films, and one of the remaining two has a huge hit series on television today. They are using Sony V1U's and Vegas as their production tool. They've had me training others in their part of the industry.
Sony Creative may not have the $$ to pay for a big name to put their signature on the software but it's very much happening from the ground up. Many high end suites are adding Vegas to their workflow. Sony Creative has recently acquired in-house talent from the broadcast world. He's already making a major difference in the film and broadcast side of the industry. There are other opportunities as well.
Bear in mind that what might be seemingly apparent in the "inclusive" world of online information isn't reasonably close to reality in many situations. I'd submit that Vegas is one of them.
The number of installs for Vegas is much higher than what you probably suspect. This community might represent perhaps 1% of the user base.
Bear in mind as well, that Sony is indeed using guerilla tactics. Sony didn't put on the party at NAB; VASST did. We got the front page of the industry news, which in turn played into a number of great results.
I respect that you've had some great successes, and know quite a bit about how businesses might work, but at the same time I'd submit that you might not be as "in the mix" and therefore missing key pieces of the puzzle. Vegas is doing exactly as Sound Forge did, taking the market one user at a time, and doing it at a level which impresses the larger market. Vegas isn't going anywhere but up, and while it doesn't have the chrome and titanium name, it does have the reliability, stamina, and support of the big companies. I'd say Avid has more to worry about than Sony or Vegas users do.

DSE,

I think the reason people are skeptical about the professionalism of Vegas is because no major name that we have been made aware of uses Vegas. You mentioned a couple of major players that have created billion $$$ content. Why haven't these people made their selves known? Its easy for us to think that there is some sort of level of shame or embarrassment among their peers that they aren't using FCP or AVid.

m not trying to be confrontational but it seems like that old addage about fat chicks and mopeds being fun to ride until your friends see you doing it.

Ive said this before and Ill say it again. the best marketing Sony could get is for a major feature film to be cut with Vegas and to tout every chance it gets like Avid. Every day Avid has some story about some major award winning film cut on Avid. Same for FCP. People are drawn to success and the tools that enable succession.

I have no doubt Vegas is used just about every where and in every industry. But when you hear mainly the event/wedding and porn editors say they use Vegas, it doesnt do much for the serious indie film maker to aspire to emulate those types of works and their tools.

Sony should sponsor some contest or fund a major film with the conditions it be cut on Vegas and document the event through start to finish. It could either be a big name director or even some good PR giving someone new at shot at their chance for stardom and success. Thats how you market your software. Heck, Sony spring for a couple XDcams and Vegas for several directors that would help build awareness and create a better market share.