Just tried it in PSP 11. Saved it with transparent background. Seemed to work fine.

What am I missing?

Rob Mack

Thanks for replies and trying things out.

That said, you said you used "PSP" which I'm guessing is Paint-Shop Pro. It's now also a Corel product, but that's different from PhotoPaint which has been part of Corel's graphics suites going back ten years before they aquired Paint-Shop.

But I might as well try what you did and compare the results.

Doh!

Well, I should "read the f_ing post". twice.

There are probably a few ways to approach transparency in PNG files but here's the way I do it in photoshop, and the way it worked in PSP, and also GIMP (which is free, btw). Hopefully it works in Photo-Paint too.

-Open your image in the multilayer paint program.
-Copy the original layer to a new layer (I do this to preserve an original within the file, ad because Photoshop usually treats this a a background layer with some features locked.)
-Turn OFF the bottom layer, making it invisible.
-Start cutting out or erasing whatever you need to erase in the top layer(s). Most programs will show you a checkerboard where all that's left is transparency.
-Save or export in the software's native format.
-Save As, or Export as 32-bit PNG. Photoshop and GIMP automatically understand that transparent and semi-transparent areas are the alpha channel. PSP required me to set a check box. The main point is that you do NOT want to pick a color for use for transparency. (think about it. PNG offers 8-bit transparency. How can you pick just one color to represent 256 levels of transparency?)

Rob Mack

Tried PSP 11, using the PNG Optimizer through Export with full options to choose from on a .bmp image from scratch. Unfortunately, it does the same thing:

--- Subtle gradient in middle of image is ignored, and when one bumps up tolerance, it starts cutting away at it leaving a hole as if someone smashed though it with a truck. No "glow" look by a long shot.

I don't understand why this simple operation is such an issue for programs like this:
Delete/turn transparent the pixels of color chosen, leave the rest. End of story.

And, yes, I DO choose colors to be as opposite as possible to object or image, i.e. red/warm tone vase, use green or blue basic RGB chroma key type color),

..........

So...

Maybe I should consider getting the cheapest version of Photoshop just so I can do this since this is important part of my projects for Corel PhotoPaint can save images in .PhotoShop formats, incl. layers. Hopefully Adobe has a fully functional trial version of PS. I'll go check it out.

Working with layers and masks may yield better results.

I don't have the time do do this right now, but I'll also try to see if PSP 11 can import layered PhotoShop files and see if I get better results on PNG export.

Ah, the trials and tribulations of pushin' pixels - lol.

The problem is in your process. Why in the world do you need to "choose colors to be as opposite as possible to object or image" ? You aren't pulling a key here. Turn off the background layer entirely. You want "nothing" behind the image. Then your program should be able to save an 8-bit alpha in your PNG.

Aside from this basic problem, it may be that putting a hole in your image is the wrong approach anyway. Rather, select the area you want to glow (you can feather the edges if you like), copy it to a new layer, turn off everything underneath, and save the PNG. Now put the PNG and the original on two tracks in Vegas, PNG on top, and apply FX to it as desired to make it brighter, blur it, whatever. The advantage here is that when you blur it there's no masking effect like there would be if you were using a "hole".

Just an idea.

Rob Mack

There was a problem with Corel PSP 11 and png's. This has been corrected in a new patch just released and png's from PSP 11 now work fine in Vegas with transparency.

Thanks for follow-up replies, and useful info in both cases. However, for now, I've solved it the "gradiant hole" way I've been doing it using the PSP 11 trial app by:

--- Saving layered PhotoPaint file (.cpt) as .psd with one layer with graded object, one empty layer under it (the latter just to make sure the top one is floatin'...).

--- Opening that .psd in PSP and exporting as .PNG with "Use Existing Alpha" transparency. Result: Pre-save before and after looked identical, finally.

And due to this, it came out in Vegas as originally created and no need to use chroma keying at all. The advantage of this "hole" way, is that I can erase freehand in the original artwork and really feather the areas as precisely as desired.

________________________

Therefore, the problem lies in...

... how PhotoPaint 12 exports .pngs. It's three or so years old, and they've moved on to another series (X-3), so no updates available anymore.

As to PSP patch, since I downloaded it only hours ago, it may already have been integrated. Whatever the case, the .psd "bridge file" worked.

PSP in on sale right now for about USD $50, so I might have to buy it. Just for this... Shee-ezus. I'll try Mack350's other way and see if I get the fine-tuning I need. If not, adios los $50.

________________________

As To The "Cheap PhotoShop" Alternative...

I've downloaded PhotoShop Elements 5, yet to install. Costs twice as much as PSP at current PSP sale price. For what I'd be using it for, too much adios money.

I also doubt Elements can stack up to PhotoPaint 12 when it comes to brushes, etc. for it's more consumer oriented, though considered superior to PSP.

But I'll give it a shot to see what's under the hood since its 478 Mb file is just sitting in my downloads file :)

Nuf said. Thanks again to all for your input. PSP looks like the best solution so far.

Yes, that was the setting to use for export from PSP. Works fine that way and I'm sorry that PhotoPaint wasn't cutting it. However, if you can get PSP for 50 bucks that's really not much. Several people here use it and some claim that prior versions were better. Maybe those are available for cheap online somewhere.

GIMP also does the job and it's totally free. You might find it a little funky but once you're used to it you can get the job done. You have to hunt a bit for the Windows port - it's native to Linux.

Rob Mack

Rob,

Good point on looking for earlier versions -- I spaced that out, even though no newbie to such things. The only problem there is that I won't be able to tell if the .PNG export will work adequately since no trial would be available.

But, one way or another, there IS a workaround and that's a huge relief. I put in too much elbow grease pushing pixels around to my standards of what is and isn't acceptable to get tripped up at the gates-of-application-export -- lol.

Besides, the limited time PSP sale price is the one at Core usually $79, now $20 off. That's straight Corel MSRP figures. There are ways to find lower prices for legitimate software at places like Atomic Park and so on.

As to GIMP, I've tried it a couple of times in the past 10 years, but having PhotoPaint, it was redundant. And yes, t'is a bit funky. But might as well get another current copy to see how it exports PNGs. If it works, hey, bingo: No adios money.

Either way, it's feasible. That's what counts.

Hasta la whenver next time. NRN.

GIMP definitely works. I mainly don't like the way it uses screen real estate.

For work, we're all on Photoshop and so are all our corporate clients, so it just makes sense for me to focus on it. I probably spend 4 full hours a day with it. And there's still tons I don't know.

I'd say my day is 40% Photoshop, 40% Dreamweaver (half of that just waiting), 5% Flash, 5% Vegas, 10% throwing away spam

Rob Mack

If it helps with photopaint, I've gotten around some .png compatibility prob. in the past by opening - resaving in another app. , often one of the image explorer programs as they're quickest to open.

Another thing that might help is the Internet Explorer filter, which I'm 80% sure is used by Photopaint, was finally fixed in ie v. 7 - before that it didn't handle transparency.

If you can find a copy of Fireworks, it's really a great app for PNGs since it uses PNGs as it's native format. This means that it will keep all the layer information and transparency so you can come back to fireworks and continue editing your png and vegas will see it as a flat png.

Yep, a good choice and favored by lots of web people. Get it while it's still around.

Rob Mack

Thanks for Fireworks tip, but it's also USD $300 MSRP.

I just came home and downloaded GIMP and will see how well it fares with .png export. Maybe try a couple of other freeware apps I forgot about. If all else fails, I'll just get PSP: that's a manageable adios money situation. Fireworks: outta-da-friggin'-question on my budget -- just to make .pngs work in Vegas :)

For cheap*er* prices keep an eye out at the software surplus sites like:

http://store.purplus.net/

http://www.softwareoutlet.com/

Can sometimes do OK during sales.