Oh yeah and audio scrubbing that works like it should.

Yeah, "Track Lock" would be great
- Side chaining..
- OMF file support
- Full B'cast wave file support
- Track meters
- The ability to EQ or process an individual event.. like every other NLE. I could do this on an Imix Video cube 12+ years ago. Why not Vegas.. I wonder if Acid 6 will allow this?

Could you define "works like it should"?

That is, what don't you like about scrubbing in Vegas currently?

Peter

Peter,

You have little or no control the way it's done now ... it "runs" away from you ... like pushing a friction wheel toy .... Premiere Pro/Elements lets you simply grab the timeline cursor and drag it back and forth over the track .... it's almost useless the way it works now ...

I don't see the behavior you describe.

Please fill out your system specs. Knowing your audio hardware and the Vegas settings associated to audio would also be useful.

What kind of control do you want? I have never had it "run away" as you describe.

I don't agree with your assesments

Personally I hate Premiere's concept of scrub as it is not a true audio scrub. Its 'stuttering" frame approach is about as useless to me as I can imagine . It is so unique to Premiere that I can't imaging anybody other than Premiere users liking it. My opinion, so take it for that.

However, it will be reviewed for future developement. If you could provide some less subjective points on this, it would be helpful.

Thanks
Peter

Realistic audio features I'd like to see in Vegas 7:

- Please fix the track pan to busses/auxes issue. This really, really needs to be addressed.

- The ability to send to an aux from a bus. Much needed functionality IMO. Currently, for example, grouping vocals to a bus becomes very clumsy when you have compression and EQ on that bus and want to send it to a reverb or delay. Obviously we'd also want this to be automatable - this could be accessed from the bus tracks pane and so with the same UI as regular tracks; no additional UI elements needed!

- Folder tracks

- Track fader grouping/ganging

- FULL VST implementation, including sending tempo information to plugs.

- FX freeze.

I don't believe any of these requests are over ambitious but represent areas in which Vegas really needs to catch up. Of course I'd also like:

- Basic MIDI implementation.

- ReWire

But I've got a feeling it's going to be a long time before we see those, especially the former. I do though think that implementing ReWire would make a lot of disgruntled Vegas audio users very happy indeed.

Thanks for listening

Ben

" ...as useless to me as I can imagine .."

... OK, but with all due respect, the program was developed for paying users, not the developers ... there is absolutely nothing more instinctive and intuitive than to grap the timeline cursor and place it where you want on the timeline and have both the video and audio scrubbed at the same time ... for those who find the noise annoying while scrubbing, you can put a checkbox in the preferences to mute the audio ... try this: using the current implementation, try and scrub to a specific point on the audio track ... and I mean a specific point ... make it stop at that point ... you will be unable to do this ... that's as objective as I can make it ...

I appreciate your opinion and feedback, however other users have stated how they like the scrub as it is.

I am not saying no, you are wrong or that I am right. You presented your opinion and I presented mine. I also said that we will consider your suggestion/request.

However, your desired work flow is exactly as I expect and is exactly how Vegas behaves - unless I misunderstand what you mean by "specific point" and how you are actually performing the task.

I can make it stop exactly where I want - i.e. a specific point.

What audio hardware and driver model are you using in Vegas?

Could you fill out your system specs in your profile please?

Thanks
Peter

" .... other users have stated how they like the scrub as it is.... "

I'm sorry but this is not the case. It has been raised as an issue several times over the years and again in this thread. We both read the forums. Anyway, I press the Control key and scrub with the mouse. There's a severe lag while dragging the timeline cursor back and forth making it impossible to select a specific point in the audio because of the "overshoot". I'm certain you know exactly what I'm talking about.

I agree that the music being scrubbed in Vegas is more recognizable than the "flutter" you're talking about in Premiere but Vegas is not providing the user enough control over the scrub. The Premiere implementation makes the music less intelligible BUT to those users who created the music or listened to it many times during editing, they know exactly what and where those "flutters" are. The whole point of the exercise is to sync a visual with a specific point in the audio timeline and the current Vegas implementation makes this exceedingly difficult if not impossible.

Yes, there's other ways to accomplish this task without a scrub but then what's the point of scrubbing audio at all if not to find a specific note or word? The Vegas audio scrub needs rethinking. If you dislike the way Premiere and other NLE's do it and you won't consider a change then there's no point in me wasting your time bringing it up. Thanks for the opportunity to talk to you.

Just one more thought. You said ... " exactly how Vegas behaves ..."

You may be referring to the JKL keyboard combo. All this does is make the timeline cursor speed forward or back like the controls on a VCR. Frankly, this is NOT scrubbing. The way all NLE's are developed today, the only way to simulate audio scrubbing is direct control of the timeline cursor using the mouse.

I am not following how you are doing this. The new time line audio scrub feature is new to Vegas 6. Perhaps we are not talking about the same thing. Just to be clear:

The "shuttle" feature is not meant for sample accurate location but merely a rate/dir change.

If you grab the 'thumb" on the main ruler cursor in Vegas 6, you can scrub to the exact point. The farther you are zoomed in, the more precise you can be with your scrubbing and location. Additionally, if you are using a device like the Mackie Control Universal, the shuttle/scrub wheel gives you very good tactile feedback when locating audio points.

I did not say we would not look into this, and I only presented my opinion. I assure you it will be discussed and reviewed. We want it to do the right thing.

Again, could you answer:

What is your audio hardware and what driver model are you using in Vegas?

Also, could you please fill our your system specs?

Thanks,
Peter

No, I am not refering to JKL shuttling.

Please read my last post.

And, if you would, fill out your system specs and let me know what audio hardware you are using and what driver model and the audio buffer settings you are using.

Thanks
Peter

Peter - I know you can't comment on future releases but I'd value your opinion on my feature suggestions. Specifically, is there any reason the pan routing changes and bus send features I suggest can't make it into Vegas 7?

I'm very much looking forward to ACID 6, and know some Vegas-like functionality has made its way in, but right now I'm unconvinced that it will be able to do everything Vegas can, edit-wise. And, ironically, after seeing ACID 6 in London at Sound Expo I was disappointed to see that you couldn't send from busses to the auxes here either. In fact, Jenn from Sony actually took a while to understand what I was asking for and why I would need it! Hmm...

Ben

" ... time line audio scrub feature is new to Vegas 6 ..."

I am using Vegas 5 and was under the impression by the posts above that nothing had changed in Vegas 6 re audio scrubbing. It appears you have made changes and I'll find out more when I buy Vegas 7. If such is the case, I apologize for harassing you about this feature. Thanks again.

I downloaded a trial version of Vegas 6 and immediately tried the audio scrubbing. I have to admit that I'm impressed with the changes and it's a better scrub than the Premiere implementation. Once again, let me apologize for bugging you about this and I look forward to the next version.

About cursor management:
I think we should make a time selection only when drag an drop cursor on TOP of Time Line. Outwards this area, we only should drag and drop playhead, make Event selection, Trim Event…

Nope, I wouldn't like that one bit. Would change Vegas' whole editing paradigm.

B

Would change Vegas' whole editing paradigm.

I don’t see why this would change Vegas editing paradigm.
I think It is too easy to lose time selection in Vegas.
Generally (in video editing) we need more to move play head than to do a time selection.

Well you know you can move the cursor without losing your time selection by clicking above the ruler, right? Do you also know that backspace cycles through previous, 'lost', time selections?

HTH

B

LET'S END THIS SCRUBBING THING ONE AND FOR ALL

Sorry for the yelling.

The scrubbing does not act as it should. What that means is that when you drag the cursor over the timeline the playback of audio is not CONTINUOUSLY VARIABLE. That is, it only moves at certain speeds. You can't quickly move back and forth over the same spot to locate a certain audio event, say a click or pop. It will "get away from you" because it DOES NOT PLAY AT THE SPEED YOU ARE MOVING THE CURSOR, instead it takes your cue of moving the cursor forward to start playing forward. Understand?

Real scrubbing should simulate actually having your hands on the reels of a tape machine and moving them back and forth.

I have been trying to communicate this to Spot for quite a while and recently uploaded a video to demonstrate:

http://www.surfcitybeachpatrol.com/hyper.htm

In this example I am using MediaStudio Pro 7 to demonstrate how scrubbing should work. Now MSPro can't hold a candle to Vegas in about 3 million other regards, but it does get this feature right. The only other thing it does well is Smart Render MPEG off the timeline.

Anyway, please have a look at the link above.

Thanks,

Mark

But Hulk, scrubbing, as us audio guys understand it, involves varying the speed of the audio as you move the reels or, in this case, cursor. In your example the audio remains the same speed. Your example describes more what I'd call 'digital shuttling'. I'm confused!

B

" ... move back and forth over the same spot ..."

You're right and Premiere also does it BUT the sound you get is more difficult to interpret and you have to know what's under the cursor to make any sense of it. In Vegas 6 there's that slight "lag" you talk about but it generates a more comprehensible sound and for me, it's worth the "time" hit. I know exactly what you're talking about. Anyway, going from V5 to V6 is like night and day for audio scrubbing.