mikes

berenberen wrote on 6/20/2006, 1:47 PM
Hi guys. I posted a while ago with questions regarding what to use for a camp music project, where the kids will create music and vocals, mix them in a simple music program, and go home with the finished CDs.

I'm wondering about what kind of mikes to get.for the vocals.
Should they be powered or unpowered?
Is it necessary to work through a mixer, or is it good enough if the mikes are plugged straight into the sound card?
Is there a specific type of mike that's needed for singing, or is anything okay? (Remember, we're not looking for studio quality here.)
Price is definitely important; we can't break the bank.
Any and all suggestions, instructions, tips are appreciated.
Thanks.

One more thing: Are USB mikes any good for this kind of work, or should we be looking for those that can plug into the sound card?

Comments

rraud wrote on 6/21/2006, 4:59 PM
I would suggest a small Mackie mixer like the VLZ-1202; 4 mic/line inputs 8 stereo line-in, plenty of outputs; balanced +4dB & mic level, unbalanced 1/4"/RCA out and Tape in /out RCAs, powerful headphone jack, as well as Phantom power should one need it for a condenser mic. The Mackie VLZ series has an internal power supply (no wall-wart) and will stand up to abuse.
For mics, The $99 Shure SM-58 is practically indestructible... even for kids and drunken adults.. The legendary 58' has probably been used by every pro and semi-pro singer at one time or another, since it's release in 1964.
I don't think a USB powered mic would last more than a few days for your application.
berenberen wrote on 6/21/2006, 10:32 PM
Thanks rraud:

The mixer, I assume, plugs into the sound card with a 1/8 inch jack, correct?

What's your opinion on the USB mixers (not mikes) I see advertised?
rraud wrote on 6/22/2006, 9:13 AM
The mixer, I assume, plugs into the sound card with a 1/8 inch jack, correct?

Yes, The easiest would be an (easy to find) dual RCA - to - 1/8" stereo mini plug adaptor cable. Plugs into the card's Line-in. Then select "line" the soundcard's control window.

I have no experence with USB or Firewire equipped mixers, but that's an option to look into.. This would probably be a good choice if you are currently using the normally noisy, awful sounding consumer soundcards that come with a PC.

A $100-150 USB portable sound card with a mic preamp(s) would work too but one could not mix more than one or two mics together into the PC. Look at ones from Echo and M-Audio among others.
berenberen wrote on 6/22/2006, 10:05 PM
Thanks for your help.

You mentioned: "This would probably be a good choice if you are currently using the normally noisy, awful sounding consumer soundcards that come with a PC. "

Unrelated to the camp question, I use a soundcard that came with my Dell (SB Creative). Can you educate me a bit on the better soundcards that are out there, and why they are better? (If the question is too broad, I understand.) Thank you.
rraud wrote on 6/23/2006, 4:12 PM
Your welcome, I hope I have helped you some.

For casual listening the Creative SB soundcard would be fine. But for recording and mixing anything important use a pro or prosumer souncard specifically made pro-audio tasks. Echo, M-Audio, MOTU, to name a few.
Do a search on the Sony and other forums for more info on why consumer cards don't cut it.
PS- Don't forget good playback monitors too.
Geoff_Wood wrote on 6/23/2006, 7:40 PM
I would go further to suggest that an SM58 would be a limiting factor, and something like a RODE NT3 would potentially give more recording options and better recorded quality all-round (vox, instruments, percusion, etc). For vox you would need to use the supplied windsock.

A small mixer like the suggested Mackie (or Behringer/Alto/Phonic/whatever) would be fine, and there are many soundcards better than the basic Soundblaster. Forget about USB mics - they are for internet chatting.

But there is a Samson vocal USB mic out now, but I'm dubious as to quality.

geoff
berenberen wrote on 6/24/2006, 10:05 PM
Thank you all.

What's vox?
Geoff_Wood wrote on 6/25/2006, 4:06 PM
Vox = vocals. Nothing to do with old pom guitar amps !
adowrx wrote on 6/26/2006, 8:33 PM
The rode comment is totally subjective.

The SM 58 probably sounds better in 99% of situations.
rraud wrote on 6/27/2006, 9:04 AM
Though I suggested a 58' Geoff is correct, a condenser mic like the NT3 would give more options. But for the described environment.. moisture and rough handling can reak havoc on a powered mic set-up. For problem free operation and longevity the live performance dynamic 58 fits the bill..
adowrx wrote on 6/30/2006, 9:19 PM
Ok, explain to me how a hypercardioid small condenser gives more options than an SM 58.
farss wrote on 6/30/2006, 9:54 PM
More directional and higher output level. However you will most likely have to feed it phantom power.

Bob.
adowrx wrote on 7/1/2006, 4:22 AM
Those are not necessarily positives, and a cardioid dynamic is at least if not more flexible and suited for the task described by the person starting the thread.
Geoff_Wood wrote on 7/3/2006, 5:05 AM
Well lets see.... a higher freq response, a lower freq response, a more even freq response, no f#$king great presence peaks and honky resonances, more output level, more sensitivity, more linear level response, the ability to get some sort of sensible recording of something other than vocals, and you won't look like a dick who thinks that a SM58 makes you look in some way 'pro'. Probably a few other things that have escaped me.

geoff
adowrx wrote on 7/3/2006, 11:15 AM
Buy an SM 58. Or even better buy an SM 57 with a nylon pop stopper. Less than $100.00.

And Geoff, chill out. It's a discussion about mics for Christ's sake.
bnjenter wrote on 7/3/2006, 2:38 PM
I couldn't agree more on the SM 57/58. Both rugged and ideally suited for your purposes. Sure there are other things you'll get with a small capsule condenser, but I agree, that's not your answer here if you may be dealing with kids. Go for the Shures and good luck.

farss wrote on 7/4/2006, 6:36 AM
I'll second that, studio quality mics and kids in a camp would be asking for trouble. I'd even suggest something cheaper than the Shures, lost of music outlets have Chinese clones as a package deal, I think 3 for under $70 seems to be the going rate, the ones we got sound OK (just) and at that price if one gets trashed you will not be fretting. Spend the money you save on better mic stands and cables.
rraud wrote on 7/4/2006, 11:19 AM
and you won't look like a dick who thinks that a SM58 makes you look in some way 'pro'

So Geoff, what your saying is; "every engineer who puts a 57 or 58 on a snare or guitar amp is gonna look like a dick?"
Geoff_Wood wrote on 7/5/2006, 6:20 PM
Not at all. I use 57's on guitar amps all the time. I was referring to those who consider themselves 'Pro Engineers' solely because they've stuck a Shure in front of somebody/something.

But the ball end on the 58 does usually cock things up and I would recommend to anyone against using that on an amp. Or on a voice for recording purposes, and I'm not too shure (joke) about live either. Not my fav mic.

But in the end it's what works best for you. Just don't assume because it's a Shure everything must be going to be fantastic.

geoff
adowrx wrote on 7/6/2006, 7:02 PM
Nice backpeddle.