What level would you suggest if any I should aim for?
To put it simply. As high as possible WITHOUT clipping yeilds the best quality.

Sorry, no time for in-depth issues.

***Are you clipping the mix bus, or are the individual tracks being imported differently than what the Alesis unit is telling you??

I think I'm clipping the mix bus, the tracks are rather hot. I can cut the level down on the faders, so I assume no clipping is taking place?

Recall also that mixing is an additive function. If you mix two identical tracks together the result will be 6dB higher than either track. The tracks won't be identical so you won't get a 6dB gain for every track, but you could see around 2 to 3dB for each power of two* tracks. If you have 14 tracks all playing simultaneously and all peaking at 0dB that would be 4 powers of 2, so you may want to start your track faders around -12dB to prevent the mix from peaking.

*Powers of two are successive multiples of 2. The first power of 2 is 2, the second is 4, the third is 8, the fourth is 16, etc. 14 tracks is almost 16, so it falls under the 4th power of 2. 4 x 3dB reduction is -12dB.

"*Powers of two are successive multiples of 2. The first power of 2 is 2, the second is 4, the third is 8, the fourth is 16, etc. 14 tracks is almost 16, so it falls under the 4th power of 2. 4 x 3dB reduction is -12dB."

LOL!! This is why I still like to use a console for mixing when possible. I don't have to think about this kind of thing! Just listen closely and watch the levels occasionally. ;-)

drbam

Eh, even in Vegas you can move the sliders with the mouse and watch the blinkin' lights. ;)

"LOL!! This is why I still like to use a console for mixing when possible. I don't have to think about this kind of thing! Just listen closely and watch the levels occasionally. ;-)"

You can overload analogue mixer mic busses too !

geoff

"You can overload analogue mixer mic busses too !"

Of course you can Geoff, and so can I. I think you missed my point or perhaps I wasn't clear enough. With an analog console, there's more of a "felt sense" of what's happening than how I experience mixing in the box and rendering. Speaking only for myself, I find that I am much less likely to overload analog mixes, even when creating quick rough ones. Bottom line is that I get the proper results either way. I can just "get there" faster with a console.

drbam

For music, the ol' consol - hands-on, fingers on the faders wins for me. However, for audio-for-picture post, mixing in the box can't be beat.
In either case sub-masters and main master levels must be monitor'd closely for clipping.

On a hardware console you have a trim control on each channel where as in Vegas you have to get used to the idea of the channel faders often being well below zero.

War story warning:

I ran into a situation at our church where the soloist was badly distorted by our Mackie 32.4. We were following the instructions in the Mackie manual to solo each mic at set it to 0 ("U"). The vocals were routed to Sub-1. As Kelly mentioned you add, on average, 3db each time you double the number of open mics. As a result the sub overloaded but you couldn't tell till you solo'd Sub-1.

We now set the trims to -15 instead of 0 and no more problems. Without a full time meter on the sub the problem wasn't self evident at first. Now I know what to watch for.

Larry

>>>Of course you can Geoff, and so can I. I think you missed my point or perhaps I wasn't clear enough. With an analog console, there's more of a "felt sense" of what's happening than how I experience mixing in the box and rendering. Speaking only for myself, I find that I am much less likely to overload analog mixes, even when creating quick rough ones. Bottom line is that I get the proper results either way. I can just "get there" faster with a console.<<<<

Umm, I'm sorry. Hogwash on "felt sense".
One reason is you know your console - now you just need to know how to use your daw to mix in the box (get used to it). And...if you havn't nailed the proper route to mixing in the box, I would be skeptical of your console mixing as well (not a slam on you - just comparing your reasoning for using a console to mix vs. vegas - that reason is moot really).

But that's ok, you like to ride faders...it's your boat.

As with either you use your ears and eyes - nothing changed except the route taken.
Except with mixing in vegas, you have a much larger pallete and a ton of features to enhance your mixs.

With Vegas "get it done faster UI" - I prefer mixing in vegas. Talk about features to zero in on problem audio. I think most are missing out if the refuse to mix in vegas, but maybe that's because I know how to do it.

You must be having bad day JD. But thanks for the informed lecture on how to mix properly. I'd forgotten that indeed YOU are the one that knows how to do it and need to come in here and remind the rest of us who are less knowlegeable. How quick I tend to forget . . .

Obviously from your hogwash remark, you can't really relate to the notion that a "felt sense" is what music is about for a lot of folks – whether its performing or mixing – at any rate, its certainly the case for me. I like to have my hands engaged in the "performance" of mixing and so I like to use a console along with Vegas. And yes, I'm aware of the incredible options Vegas offers. I've been using it since version 1 and do a great deal of mixing within the app itself. But again, my preference is to use both – I believe its referred to as a hybrid approach but clearly you're not interested in such archaic and outdated methods.

Peace,

drbam