On2 got a bit shafted in HD-DVD , as they were in the spec at first as an option ...

They're probably better at tech than politics, so they got rammed by Microsoft, at least that would be my guess based on experience from other standards organizations...

Can't wait for Flash 8, it will let me do some things for online training I have been wanting to do for a long time.

I am a beta tester for both On2 Flix Pro v5.0 and
Flash 8.

The video streaming results are AMAZING!!

I posted this a week ago. The VP7 product from On2
requires the browsing computer downlaod and install
the software. If you use the Flix Pro 5.0 to encode the
.avi or .mpeg to flash 8 then the computer does NOT need to
download any codec as it is probably already installed. If it is NOT
installed then it will download and install flash 8 in a ...."Flash"

Alex.

Does that mean Flix Pro 5 be released simultanously with Flash 8?

YES. I spoke with the people at On2 and they told me that
the Flix Pro new version 5.0 will go production the SAME
day that Flash 8 is released into production. If you want to
test the Flix Pro (Beta) just email them at On2 and they
will allow you to download the 28 day trial beta along
with the beta Flash 8. I am currently a user of Flix Pro 4.0

I currenlty encode all my streaming videos at 500 kb/s

With the new Flix 5.0 I am able to get a little bit better quality
just at 250 kb/s! The quality is GREAT!

I read yesterday that Macromedia is positioning themselves to be
the BEST format for streaming video content on the web. They are
NOT really going after the same market as Microsoft and Real Player
or Quicktime as multimedia delivery content.

In my business I only care for web streaming.

Alex.

FYI:

I emailed On2 and asked why a plugin was not available for Vegas even thought they support other NLE's.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Hi Tim,
Thank-you for contacting On2 Technical Support. And thank-you for your question regarding support for Flix in Sony Vegas.

I want to preface my explanation by saying this is my first attempt to explain this - so if my explanation is not clear please let me know.

The reason that Flix doesn't show up in Vegas is that Sony has a number of pre-defined formats that it writes: Flix is not one of these. A company can then go an extra step by acknowledging and then allowing plug-ins to their software. These are usually listed under the Export menu item. If you notice in Vegas, there is no Export function. Sony has decided at this point not to allow plug-ins for their software and therefore Flix will not be found in Vegas at the present. This can change in the future by either Sony talking with On2 about having Flix as one of their recognized output formats or the company allowing plug-ins to exist.

I hope this helps as an explanation. If you have any more questions, please email me back.

Thank-you for your time in allowing me to compose this response.

Bruce Clark
On2 Technical Support
flixsupport@on2.com

"Sony has decided at this point not to allow plug-ins for their software and therefore Flix will not be found in Vegas at the present."

Does he not know a Vegas SDK exists?

not the same thing he is talking about ..

what he is saying is - if sony pays us, it can be there ....

I hope Sony/On2 find a way to do this. It took FOREVER for me to encode my HD Flash experimental demo segment, (www.hd-tv.us) using intermediate formats.

-Travis

"what he is saying is - if sony pays us, it can be there ...."

Screw that. So he thinks Sony should pay them and help push their format? Id rather see Sony push Nero/Ateme before they push the On2 crap. I have never enjoyed any On2 produced encodes.

"Sony has decided at this point not to allow plug-ins for their software..."

Can this be true??? What does Sony need to do to "allow" plug-ins beyond publishing the SDK? Sony shouldn't need to pay On2, because the purchasers of the On2 Flix plug-in for Vegas would purchase the plug-ins from On2 and that's how they would get their money. If Sony is preventing plug-ins for Vegas they would be restricting the usefulness of Vegas. It seems illogical that they would do that.

-- seeker --

they are not

Not sure what the fuss is here - in terms of if Sony has to pay someone for a codec. As I understand it Sony (And SoFo before) has to pay to license certian core componets including Mpeg 2 encoding and Dolby encoding. I would guess same goes for use of Real codec, Quicktime codec and MS Codecs also found in Vegas. And right up to Vegas 6 with Cineform no doubt.

On the other hand perhaps On2 has freely given the Vegas team their own SDK and Sony just has not done anything with it as of yet. Remember this is a two way street.

Filmy,

"On the other hand perhaps On2 has freely given the Vegas team their own SDK and Sony just has not done anything with it as of yet."

I think Bruce Clark of On2 Technical Support would have mentioned that in his reply to Tim Tyler. (See the message earlier in this thread.)

"Not sure what the fuss is here..."

Some of us really want VP6 and possibly VP7 in Vegas and we're not sure that will happen if we don't raise a fuss. From what little I've seen, the VP6 codec is very good for preparing quality video for web streaming, for Flash 8 compatibility, and for other purposes. And, presumably the VP7 codec is even better.

The square artifacts of MPEG2 really annoy me, and I would like to have better compression codecs that don't have those obvious square image defects. I personally would prefer that Sony did pay On2 to license the VP6 codec for inclusion in the next Vegas release. Flash 8 compatibility would be a good reason for Sony to do that.

-- seeker --

You commeted on a statement I made, but only part of the comment. The last part of it said: - in terms of if Sony has to pay someone for a codec. and that was my point of the post.

Seems a year or more ago there was some sort of disscussion about Vegas Video and how it handled, or did not handle, certian things. I seem to recall price being an issue - that each time SoFo added something new that it had to license it would add on extra money to the cost. On2 is not different from any other company that charges for access to it's SDK's.

Filmy,

"You commented on a statement I made, but only part of the comment."

I concede that point. I agree with your messages. But my original comment, in a previous message, was trying to make the point that if Vegas were open to standard video plug-ins, like Premiere and After Effects are, then Sony wouldn't have to pay for adding On2's VP6 and/or VP7 capability. Those of us who wanted the capability enough to pay for it would pay On2 for the plug-in(s) and those Vegas users who aren't impressed with On2 wouldn't have to subsidize it with a higher price for the next version of Vegas.

My last message was trying to motivate Sony to pay, by pointing out that if Vegas 7 isn't compatible with Flash 8, that will hurt Vegas competitively. I think Macromedia may soon be acquired by Adobe, which would put Flash in bed with Premiere and After Effects.

-- seeker --