Burning to Pioneer AO9/109

John_Cline wrote on 5/3/2005, 7:30 AM

I'm a little disappointed in the A09 as well, even with the v1.40 firmware update. I haven't tried burning any +R media, so I can't comment on the problem you are having. My issue with it is that it's much slower than the A08/108 when it comes to reading. I use Nero to burn my DVD video discs and I have Nero do a verify pass on each one. On the A08, I could get 10x reads during the verify, on the A09, I can barely get over 3x. I used the Pioneer "QuietDrive" utility to set the drive to the "performance" mode, which is supposed to speed up the reads, but it didn't seem to make any difference. (The QuietDrive utility only works on A09 drives, not the 109 drives.) Needless to say, this slows down the whole process quite a bit. I've had really good luck with the Pioneer burners up until the A09, but I'm probably going to look at the NEC or Plextor drives next time.

By the way, here is a link to a decent burner reference site with an active forum:

www.rpc1.com

John

craftech wrote on 5/3/2005, 7:56 AM

I tried to suggest that there were mixed reviews on the A09/109, but a lot of people seemed unreceptive to that notion.
Using this as a basis, I chose eight NEC ND-3520A burners for my duplicating rack.
The price alone makes it worth trying one.

John

John_Cline wrote on 5/3/2005, 8:12 AM

Yes, John, I should have listened. But it only cost me $60 to find this out. Could have been much worse.

John

johnmeyer wrote on 5/3/2005, 8:16 AM

I have the A09, and have read all sorts of negatives about it. Many said it wouldn't work with well Nero 6.x. It certainly didn't work with Nero 5.5, and I wasn't looking forward to learning a new tool. Thus, if I wanted to avoid this learning curve, I HAD to upgrade to Nero 6.x to use it. No choice.

The A09 works perfectly with Nero 6.x, despite what I read.

Those same reviews said that Nero 6.x was bloatware. I hate bloatware and was very hesitant to install the new Nero. Turned out that was not true either.

Lots of people talk about upgrading the firmware. Mine came with 1.09 firmware, and I have not upgraded it. Works fine with DVD-R and DVD-RW discs, although the only DVD-R discs I have used are Ritek and Tayo-Yuden. I have not burned to DVD+R or DVD+RW, and perhaps the problems happen with those discs.

I hadn't paid much attention to the read speed issue because when I read DVDs back into my computer, I use a Sony DVD/CD-R drive that reads/writes CDs but only reads DVDs. I can sometimes get up to 10x read on that. However, I just read John Cline's post, and he knows what he's doing, so I thought I'd try to read a disc in the A09 and see what speed I get. I have done absolutely nothing to tweak this drive, and as I write this, I'm currently looking at 7.5x read (and it's still climbing). This is pretty much as good as it gets, at least on my system.

I am running Windows XP Pro, SP1 on a P4PB 400 motherboard (2.8 GHz P4), and 1 GByte of RAM.

Just looked at the copy. It is up to 9.0x and still climbing. Gee, maybe I should use this drive instead of the Sony. This is as fast as it gets.

So, no problems here.

Wait ... just looked again ... there it goes ... just went above 10. 10.1 x and climbing.

I guess mine goes to eleven ...

John_Cline wrote on 5/3/2005, 8:33 AM

Well now, that's just plain curious.... Since you've upgraded to the latest Nero, could you use it to burn a DVD video disc and turn on the verify option and see what kind of read speeds you get during the verify pass? I can read data DVD-R discs at high speed, but the A09 seems to intentionally slow down on reading DVD video discs.

I checked all the obvious stuff, like making sure the DMA mode is on for that drive, perhaps I need to re-flash the firmware. FWIW, I'm running this drive on a system similar to yours (WinXP SP1, Shuttle FB51 motherboard, 3.06 Ghz P4, 1 gig RAM) with the drive as the only drive on it's own IDE channel.

John

John_Cline wrote on 5/3/2005, 9:09 AM

I just found v1.50 firmware for the A09/109.

DVR-109: http://www.pioneer-dvd.com.tw/d_file/firmware/DVR109_FW150B.EXE

DVR-A09: http://www.pioneer-dvd.com.tw/d_file/firmware/DVRA09_FW150B.EXE

There is no "changelog" included, but I noticed this new firmware include another kernel, so this appears to be another major revision. I haven't flashed my drive with it yet, so I have no comments about what's different. This firmware is from Pioneer Taiwan and isn't posted on the USA Pioneer web site yet. Also, flashing firmware is dangerous, so don't blame me if you smoke your drive.

John

JJKizak wrote on 5/3/2005, 9:23 AM

I must repeat I have only had trouble burning +x media. All the -x stuff burned ok. The manual also recommends to use Pioneer media when burning 12x and 16x speeds. Does anyone know the latest compatibility list for DVD-A3?

JJK

johnmeyer wrote on 5/3/2005, 9:47 AM

Does anyone know the latest compatibility list for DVD-A3?

You could check www.dvdrhelp.com.

I just found v1.50 firmware for the A09/109.

John, if you upgrade to this firmware, let us know if it helps anything.

Jsnkc wrote on 5/3/2005, 10:04 AM

We currently have 21 109's running in our DVD duplicators that I built. We had some problems with them in the beginning but I recently went through and updated the firmware in all of them and now they work perfectly. We use Verbatim 4X white inkjet printable discs.

johnmeyer wrote on 5/3/2005, 7:56 PM

Since you've upgraded to the latest Nero, could you use it to burn a DVD video disc and turn on the verify option and see what kind of read speeds you get during the verify pass?

Darn, I just did a disk this morning with verify turned on, but I left for the rest of the day, so I didn't see what read rate it got. I was actually using DVD Decrypter for the read operation I reported on earlier (it names the folders and creates the VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS folder automatically, so I like to use it to get the contents of DVDs back on my hard drive).

I checked all the obvious stuff, like making sure the DMA mode is on for that drive, perhaps I need to re-flash the firmware. FWIW, I'm running this drive on a system similar to yours (WinXP SP1, Shuttle FB51 motherboard, 3.06 Ghz P4, 1 gig RAM) with the drive as the only drive on it's own IDE channel.

I have the A09 as the master on the secondary IDE channel, and the Sony DVD/CD-R drive as the slave. The motherboard (which has the IDE controller) is a VIA P4PB 400. I downloaded the "4-in-one" drivers for this, since that is supposed to fix all sorts of problem related to this sort of thing (I did that a long time ago). I know a lot of sites talk about getting special firmware to overcome intentional slow reading when reading video DVDs. Hacked firmware sounds like a really bad idea, so I never went near that.

John_Cline wrote on 5/3/2005, 8:27 PM

I update my A09 to the latest v1.50 firmware. It didn't seem to make any difference whatsoever. No better, no worse.

Usually Pioneer updates are just to add new DVD media to the drive's media database. This release also included a new kernel file, which is the drive's operating system, they have actually changed something about the way the drive operates but I can't tell what.

My verify passes in Nero v6.0012 only run at about 3 to 5x max. My 108 will do 10x+. With a full-disc write and verify at 8x using 8x media, the A09 is taking about 28 minutes. My 108 does the write and verify in about 16 minutes total.

That NEC 3520a is looking better and better.

John

johnmeyer wrote on 5/3/2005, 10:50 PM

I just read somewhere that to get the most speed you have to use the 80 pin cables. However, I think my secondary channel cable is only 40 pin, so that may not be the solution.

johnmeyer wrote on 5/4/2005, 10:40 AM

John,

Do you have the Nero ASPI layer installed? I do. Version 2.0.1.74.

Also, DirectX 9.0c.

The firmware version on my drive is 1.09, buffer 2000 kB, date 1-19-2005, Serial number DLDC001034UC.

Nero Infotool gave me the above info.

Just trying to see if I can come up with an explanation for the slow read speeds you are reporting.

bnjenter wrote on 5/4/2005, 1:24 PM

John,

I have seen some of the newer drives that won't operate at all with 40 pin cables. I'd like to hear the results when you change the cable.

Bob

John_Cline wrote on 5/4/2005, 1:42 PM

John (Meyer),

Yes, I have the v2.0.1.74 Nero ASPI layer installed and I have DirectX 9.0c. It is the only drive (master) on its own IDE channel using an 80-pin cable.

I have "solved" my problem by putting my 108 back in the machine. It's working perfectly, verify read speeds up to 12.4x. I put the 109 in another machine where it probably won't get used much.

John

johnmeyer wrote on 5/4/2005, 11:32 PM

I have seen some of the newer drives that won't operate at all with 40 pin cables.

Two Johns in this thread, so don't get confused. My A09 (the one that is working just fine) is connected with a 40 pin cable.

John_Cline wrote on 5/5/2005, 9:33 AM

For what it's worth, NewEgg.com is having a sale on the NEC 3520a DVD burner. $50.99 with free FedEx shipping.

NEC 3520a at www.NewEgg.com

As one of the other John's (Craftech) pointed out, the NEC 3520a is currently the highest rated drive at at www.videohelp.com, it gets a 9.4 rating as opposed to a 7.4 rating for the Pioneer A09/109.

The new v3.04 firmware for the 3620a adds the ability to scan DVD's for PIE/PIF errors in Nero CD-DVD Speed. This is great news for those of us burning masters for replication.

John

JJKizak wrote on 5/5/2005, 10:59 AM

I can't mess around with this AO-9 anymore so I went to NewEgg and ordered a Plextor top of the line IDE.

JJK

bnjenter wrote on 5/5/2005, 7:51 PM

I'm glad I plugged in to this thread. I was on the verge of buying an A09. Do any of you have burners they'd heartily recommend. I have an A05 which has given me great results but I'm feeling the need for speed.

Bob

John_Cline wrote on 5/5/2005, 8:37 PM

Like I said a few messages above, the NEC 3520a has the highest rating of any burner reviewed at www.videohelp.com. It is on sale at www.newegg.com for $50.99 with free shipping. I ordered a couple of them and they should be delivered next week.

In the meantime, I borrowed a friends 3520a and have been playing with it for the last two days, it works flawlessly.

John

JJKizak wrote on 5/6/2005, 12:35 PM

Update. Installed Nero and it burns fine to the AO-9 burner with 8x DVD+R discs. That means that DVD-A3 does not.

JJK

bnjenter wrote on 5/10/2005, 7:37 PM

Thanks John,

I got on the bandwagon too. Ordered a 3520a today. Thanks for your input.

Bob