I agree with Jay. I would go to newegg.com and price the parts. I put together a system last year for about $1800 that was selling at Dell for about $2500! AND at least I know I got good quality parts. Who knows what kind of memory or other OEM parts Dell uses.

On the low end (under $500) its hard to beat Dell's price because they deal in such volume, but on the high end its very easy to put a system together with better parts for a lot less than Dell will sell you.

~jr

OK, I thought I would try and put something together quickly:

FOR EXAMPLE:
This is just to give you an idea of what things cost at newegg.com. This is NOT a recommendation to buy these parts. I just put this together quickly to get a price reference for you:

Case: ANTEC Black Performance Series II SOHO File Server Tower ATX Case with 400W Power Supply, Model "SX1040BII" Item# N82E16811129120 $100.50

MoBo: INTEL "SE7505VB2" E7505 Chipset Server Motherboard for Dual Intel Xeon CPU -RETAIL Item# N82E16813121178 $369.50

Proc: Intel Xeon 3.06GHz 533MHz FSB, 512K Cache, Hyper Threading Technology - Retail
Item# N82E16819117019 $335.00 each x2 = $670.00

Memory: Mushkin 184-Pin 1GB DDR PC-2100 – OEM Item# N82E16820146199 $191.77 x 2 = $383.54

HD1: Maxtor 60GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive, Model 6Y060M0, OEM Drive Only Item# N82E16822144336 $64.00

HD2: Maxtor 160GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive, MODEL 6Y160M0, OEM Drive Only Item# N82E16822144322 $93.00

DVDRW: Pioneer Black DVD+RW/-RW Drive, Model DVR-108, OEM Item# N82E16827129157 $72.99

Video: GIGABYTE nVIDIA GeForce FX5200 Video Card, 128MB DDR, 64-bit, DVI/TV Out, 8X AGP, Model "GV-N52128DE" -RETAIL Item# N82E16814125131 $54.00

Floppy: Samsung Black 1.44MB 3.5inch Floppy Disk Drive, Model SFD321B/LBL1, OEM Drive Only Item# N82E16821103203 $6.99

Product total: $1,814.52

Add a monitor of your choice and you are still below the $2350 for a refurbished from Dell and you know you have brand new quality parts.

~jr

I disagree. I've built many editing machines, but after you factor all the time spent building and configuring, you're better off going with a high quality machine. (Key here is HIGH quality) The dell 650 workstations are incredible machines, and he'll get a 3 year warranty with instant service. (Much better than calling some guy who sold you an OEM video card from the internet) I'm sure he could have gone to pricewatch.com and ordered RAM, HD, Mobo, 2 procs, Video Card, 1394 cards, fans, heat sinks, gel, a case, floppy drive, CD/DVD, soundcard, XP pro, power supply, IDE cables, (in his case) SCSI cables, a 10k RPM SCSI drive), maybe a USB 2 card, and a Raid card (if not built into the mobo) and saved $500 bucks. Then again, it sounds like he is using the machine to generate profits and it's far better to go with a known working system from a company that builds computers for living and can refund or repair down the road, then it is to roll your own home brew machine for business reasons. I've known some people that started off building machines, and as their production companies started to grow, started buying machines instead of buliding them.

Now, if its a hobby thing, then build it yourself because it's really kinda of cool and rewarding. There was a point that I enjoyed it, but anyone that has built their own machine (and you're lying if you disagree with this) has spent many hours tweaking the machine (normally obscure BIOS settings that vary widely from Mobo company to Mobo company) in the pursuit to get the most out of the machine. This is time better spent editing and making money.

Also, for the Dell haters that will reply to this message, the professional dell workstations are much better (as is the tech support) then the $500 dollar specials we all hear horror stories about. Please bare that in mind and please bare in mind that the original poster purchased a very high-end pro machine. Which, by the way, sounds like a really good price on. Not sure if Vegas will take full advantage of dual Xeons, but I'm sure other apps he has will.

Is Vegas really setup to take advantage of two procs?

I've got a dual 650 and it is a high quality piece of kit that performs flawlessly, highly recommended from me.

Vegas does make a little use of dual processors, depends on what you are doing.

What is cool is running three or four instances of vegas, one editing and the rest rendering and it does not miss a beat. Still responsive and rendering in a resonable time.

Quite a few threads on dual procs in Vegas if you do a search.

Paul

PS. The magic bullet plugin with V5 runs my system with both processors and threads at 100% - still takes ages though :-)

You forgot to include the fact that it has a 146 SCSI harddrive. Newegg has these listed at $600.

This makes the Dell unit very attractive, even despite the close comparison wtih DIY. Factor in a 3 year warranty (true - sometimes Dell is a pain, but the warranty is still in place)

BTW, I'm a physician with a lot of knowledge about software. Nothing makes me grumpier than wasting my valuable time with unwanted hardware or software problems. My attitute has been to buy high end DELL workstations every three years or so. THey've been very dependable and even videoguys.com extolls their virtues. When they are so reduced in price thru the Outlet side of Dell, their value becomes really attractive.

- Marc

Marc, I thought I mentioned the 10K SCSI drive? :) I have a 350 workstation with a gig of RAM, I've never tried to render in one instance of Vegas, while working on another. I may have to see what happens. I'm so used to editing on systems that require a video capture card, like Targa/pinnacle, and the such, I'm always afraid to have anything open other than the NLE.

I'm going to try the render with one, and edit with the other today. I'll report back, probably seeking windows advice for a Blue Screen of Death, or to say that my Dell died. (insert: sound of wood being knocked on)

> My attitute has been to buy high end DELL workstations every three years or so.

Just be sure of what you’re getting. Trust me, you’re not getting Mushkin memory in a Dell. You’re getting the cheapest crap money can buy. The same is true for the power supply and other parts. I tried to configure a system with quality parts in the previous post. I could have selected cheaper parts from newegg.com. Like cheaper memory, or a $30 case with 300W power supply instead of $100 Antec case with a 400W power supply. If you really want to compare prices fairly, you need to ask Dell what parts they are using. Are they using the same quality motherboard, memory, power supply, etc. I doubt it. You can pay $50 for a motherboard or $500. Same is true for power supplies. You get what you pay for (except when you buy from Dell).

It sounds like you want to buy the Dell so just buy it. I don’t trust Dell and their cheap parts. I never had them answer a question correctly or be helpful when I called even when I did own one, so having their support was worth nothing. I was still on my own. Start upgrading your parts and you’ll be on your own too. Dell doesn’t support upgrades that you don’t buy from them.

Building you own PC is not for everybody. I’ll take a PC that I built myself with better parts for less money any day of the week (even better parts for the same money). Like I said, its not for everyone.

~jr

jr,

Why do I always get sucked into these conversations... I know I'm a glutton for punishment. My only comment to you is, Dell DOES NOT ALWAYS use cheap parts. Not in the workstation class machines, anyway. The "day job" (i.e. The IT dork) has me in charge of about 40+ DEll Precision 330 & 340 workstations. In the three years I've been there, I've had one harddrive fail, one motherboard fail, and one proc die on the older machines (4 years old). Since they came with a three year warranty and they were still under warranty, I had a new hardrive the NEXT business day. Open a workstation and you'll find a solid machine. I'm not opening mine right now (thought it's really easy to) to check my RAM. When I looked at adding another gig when i bought my machine, it was the most expensive RAM on pricewatch. I know it's Samsung RDRAM of some sort, and its far from junk.

Dell might use lower quality parts on the lesser priced systems, as I imagine they'd have to. The workstations are over-engineered if anything. They run well and fast. My 350 cost about $2,000 2 years ago, not the cheapest deal in town. When it was new, it hung with the Alienware unit that cost around $3000 in a head-to-head review in some DV mag (it also smocked the best Mac, too. Alienware is supposed to be a company that buys all of the "best" stuff for their machines, yet they were not faster. For me, Dell has proven to be reliable, high performance, and they have good service.

I'm not working for the man jr, I just hate the blanket statements that Dell is junk. I guess we have had very different experiences with Dell, and that's fine. I just want people reading this to realize that not ALL DELL is junk. Just, perhaps, some if it.

Happy Editing.

How about hearing from Dell customers themselves?

http://planetfeedback.com/sharedLettersList/0,2941,102269-5-0-1-20-0-fb_date-desc,00.html

This is so funny I had to cut and paste it.


Here's why I'm writing. On November 26th, I called Dell technical support for assistance on updating my video card for my Dell Dimension 4600. After the respresentative instructed me how to set up the card, my computer would not turn on. She told me she would call back within an hour with a solution. She did not call back. I called technical support again an hour and a half later with the hope that someone could at least help me get the computer turned on. I was on the phone with a representative for over two hours. He insisted that I had inserted the new video card incorrectly and had me take it out/put it back in multiple times. Eventually, since this did not work, he had me take out every piece inside the computer. He did not offer any help in reinstalling these parts because my warranty expired one month ago. I asked to be transfered to customer service to make a complaint and ask that someone come to my house and fix this problem. She informed me that because of my warranty expiration, nothing could be done. Prior to this instance, I received a faulty CD ROM with my initial computer purchase. Technical support could not fix this problem and told me they would send a technician with a new CD ROM within that week. No one showed up and there was no follow up to see if my problem had been solved. After making numerous calls to Dell, it took over six months for the technician to finally show up and fix my CD ROM. This is why I did not renew my warranty; It took half a year - half the time of my entire warranty - to fix one small problem with absolutely no compensation for my trouble. I took many days off work waiting for the technician who never showed up until six months later. I am not getting the service or quality that I paid for with this computer. I purchased this computer one year ago thinking that Dell was a reputable company and hoping to become a loyal customer. I have never regretted a decision so much.

Nickle,

Good thing Marc didn't purchase a Dell Dimension 4600... this thread was about a Precision Workstation. Two different animals, two different price points, and for two very different markets. Sort of like Vegas and Xpri, or Cadillac and Chevy. Get it? Different service depts. as well.

Why is this concept seem so foreign?

Sorry for the OT, everyone else.

Well, getting sucked into the fray... I work for a nonprofit hospital organization with five (soon six) facilities. We've standardized on Dell PCs for over six years now, and they generally are quite reliable for desktops and servers (we're on the 63xx series rack stuff). I'm not as sanguine about their consumer level machines.

They use a lot of proprietary hardware (Mobos, cases, and power supplies) and their warranty service is rather, um, interesting. I overheard one of our network engineers the other night on the phone with Dell for a bad DLT drive on the server (we have a 4 hour turnaround-time service agreement). Unfortunately, the 4-hour guarantee only applies after a "claims specialist" runs down every obvious cause over the phone. In this case, the "claims specialists" were busy (no estimate could be given by the "service coordinator") so that 4-hour turnaround turned out to be more like 8 hours.

Also, be aware that if Dell deems a part unavailable, you're screwed because Dell will not replace the part with another (newer) PN or make repairs. And we're talking about a multi-million dollar customer being treated like this. I wouldn't want to be Joe Consumer with a substantial problem with a Dell.

I concur with the built-it-yourself camp, but understand why many are more comfortable with a commercially manufactured PC that's got a better than average reliability but poor repairability outside of warranty.

Bob.

http://www.polywell.com/

My favorite maker

It's still better than buying an expensive PNY graphics card with a "Lifetime Warranty".

Three months after purchase, the card croaks.

No problem, this card has a Lifetime Warranty!

"Ring-ring, PNY?"
"Yes."
"My PNY FX4600 videocard just croaked and I want a repair or replacement under my Lifetime Warranty."
"Sorry, your lifetime warranty just expired."
"Huh?"
"We just stopped making the FX4600, and replaced it with the nearly identical FX4650."
"Yeah, so what?"
"Well, as we say very clearly in the ultrafine microprint on the back of our Lifetime Warranty agreements (inside the sealed product box), the warranty expires when the product expires. Have a nice day, buh-bye, gotta go!"

Hey Johnny,

Not that I particularly want to recommend any vendor's system but I'm sitting here on my Dell laptop thinking how great it was to have three years of in-home service on a refurbished laptop. I used the service at 2 years, 10 months. Pleased as punch not to have to send the unit "back to bench".

At work we have two Dell servers. One is a year old and sits next to me. It's whisper quiet and definitely isn't in a cheap chassis. The other is about 5 years old, has a very heavy duty chassis and PSU, and sounds like a hovercraft. Bulletproof, but loud as hell. We have to keep it in a Noren rack along with it's swamp-boat brethren.

Server hardware from these vendors is generally pretty good. Usually the weak spot is graphics cards but Vegas doesn't need much-it's perfectly happy with a Matrox G450.

Scsi for render drives can be helpful since it has lower CPU overhead. The extra cycles available for renders can actually help. Whether it's worth the price is another matter.

If your time is worth money and already in high demand then building your own systems and providing your own on-site support just doesn't pay off.

Rob Mack

I can tell you where bad warranty support really really hurts and that's on big arrays. They're so friggin expensive that everyone plays hot potato. Make SURE you get the service agreements spelled out with crystal clarity before taking delivery. And you probably need to insure the things against failure as well, if possible.

Rob Mack

I was typing in a long message about my positive experience with a little-known PC company when I hit wrong keys and killed the msg. Here's the company...

Hypersonic

So there was a long story. Short version is that I swapped the hard drive and OS (to Win 2k). In spite of that they worked with me (maybe an hour on the phone over a couple to 4 calls) to try to resolve a configuration problem. Eventually I found I had screwed up by not having the latest version of Win 2K -- the one I was using didn't support USB 2.

So, bottom line is, I think the PC was decent to very good performance, and the kind of support I got 6 months later was way beyond the norm these days.