Retaining original DV timecode when rendering clips from Vegas timline

michael_morlan wrote on 10/20/2004, 9:26 AM
Hi all,

Quite often, I will capture an entire tape, cut out takes on a timeline, add region markers, render the regions to files, and edit from those. However, the timecode from the original capture is lost in this process and thus I lose any reference to the original tape should I wish to re-capture footage for a future edit. (I try to avoid capturing multiple clips from tape to avoid wear on my camcorder's mechanism.)

I know that saving a project with trimmed clips retains the timecode, but Vegas will combine clips into a single DV file where their timecodes overlap.

I suppose I could just edit from the single big file, having broken it into clips in the media bin but I usually only want to edit with about 50% of the original footage. That's a lot of wasted disk space during my edit.

Does anyone have any other approaches to this process?

Comments

Chienworks wrote on 10/20/2004, 9:46 AM
My approach would be to capture with scene detection enabled. This will create a new .avi file each time the recording was paused/restarted. Then i'll delete the files i won't have any use for. True, this may still leave some files that i'll only want tiny slices of, but at least i can ditch a lot of what i don't want.

I see a lot of posts that indicate people would rather capture the entire tape as a single file instead of separate files. I can't think of any reason i would want that. Can someone explain why so many others do?
BrianStanding wrote on 10/20/2004, 9:46 AM
Try this:

1. Capture an entire tape, with "enable DV scene detection" on

2. Save the resulting .sfvidcap file (do NOT lose this file!)

2. Put selected segments on the Vegas timeline

3. Save the project as a new project and click the "copy trimmed media with project" option

4. Open up the new project and make sure it's correct.

You should be able to delete the original files and Vegas project and work only with the trimmed files. You should also be able to recapture just the trimmed files at a later date, as long as you have the .sfvidcap file.

You can test this by exiting Vegas and temporarily renaming the folder where your trimmed files are stored. Re-open the Vegas files created in step 3, above, and see if Vegas prompts you to "recapture offline media." If so, you're good to go. If not, there's a problem somewhere.

Hope this helps.
BrianStanding wrote on 10/20/2004, 9:48 AM
Also, if you're using Vegas 5, consider using "subclips" instead of rendering out a new DV file for each segment.
johnmeyer wrote on 10/20/2004, 10:53 AM
I see a lot of posts that indicate people would rather capture the entire tape as a single file instead of separate files. I can't think of any reason i would want that. Can someone explain why so many others do?

1. Organization. Large projects have hundreds of files. It is difficult to keep track of. This is especially true given the much-discussed media asset management weaknesses in the current version of Vegas.

2. Speed. Vegas, as currently architected, bogs down substantially when you put hundreds of files on the timeline. If you put exactly the same overall length of video on the timeline, but instead have the video in one large event, Vegas loads, scrubs and generally runs much faster. One answer would be to break the project down into smaller segmenets, but Sony still does not permit multiple MPEG-2 files to be combined in DVDA without either forcing you to use a Music Compilation (which doesn't permit chapter markers inside of an MPEG file) or else be willing to have each MPEG-2 file put into a separate titleset, which screws up the navigation on most DVD players.

3. Multiple Views of Same File. If Sony were to build the architecture to have scene information stored separately (as Pinnacle does), you can use software to create different "scene" boundaries for different situations. For many projects, I would like automatic scene detection, not every time there is a timecode discontinuity, but only when the time changes more than "X," where X is large enough that there has been a "real" break in shooting, not simply a starting and stopping of the camera a few seconds apart. Other times, I want scene detection by date.
PeterWright wrote on 10/20/2004, 8:01 PM
> "Can someone explain why so many others do?"

I almost always work this way, Kelly - capture tapes as a single clip, then if required, create virtual subclips by naming and saving Regions in the Trimmer.

A typical project will have maybe 5 hours of footage, and it may be two or three months before I know definitely which footage will or won't be needed in the final project.

If a subsequent decision is made to add or replace a particular shot or sequence, I know that I have that footage sitting there, and can add it to the timeline in seconds. The alternative would be to find and load the tape, decide in and out points and recapture.

In the "old days", I had to be careful not to use valuable space with material that wasn't going to be used, but now that HD space is so cheap, I find this method suits the way most of my projects develop.

michael_morlan wrote on 10/22/2004, 9:02 AM
Some good ideas guys.

Regarding auto scene detection - My JVC GY-DV500 camera doesn't create an index that can be detected. So that's useless.

My biggest reason for simply capturing the entire tape is to reduce head wear on my camera. Unless I only need 20% or less of the tape, I use a lot less time if I simply capture the entire tape than if I capture each take to a separate DV file.

I suppose that saving the project with "trimmed media" that results in some adjacent clips combined is no big deal, but then the files aren't named after their cuts, but after the larger file + a sequential index number. I then have to manually rename each file. That's not such a big deal since I would be manually entering that scene/take info at *some* point in the process.

The whole point of this is to be able to delete all on-line DV files when finished with the project and be able to re-create them from the Vegas timeline and original tapes.

I suppose the best approach for my narrative projects is:

o Capture entire tapes to singular DV files.
o Cut down the large DV file on the Vegas timeline into desired takes.
o Clean up the media pool.
o Save the project with "trimmed media".
o Rename the trimmed DV files.
o Load up on a new timeline and get editing.
Chienworks wrote on 10/22/2004, 10:10 AM
Capturing individual scenes to separate DV files using datecode scene detection is exactly the same wear and tear on the camera as capturing a single file. VidCap closes each file and starts a new one "on the fly" while capturing; the tape is never paused or rewound. And just as with saving trimmed media, you get a base file name with 3 digit index numbers. You can rename in the explorer or media pool windows after capturing. You can also immediately delete the clips you don't want without doing any trimming and saving or rendering.

One big advantage this has over saving with trimmed media is that the audio remains in the .avi file instead of having separate .w64 files.