You must try a Pana DVX100...

If you want 2/3 inch CCDs you are looking at BIG dollars, I'm only guessing but I'd say at least USD 10K, probably lens extra, maybe another USD $5K. And all of that would be wasted on DV25!
In a more realistic light the Panasonic DVC30 looks like it might be good value. Seem to have spent your money on useful things like good glass, good CCDs optimised for video and controls like you get on a pro camera. Pretty much the same as the DVX100 without the 24p and with a longer lens.
If you're serious about the 'film' bit then the DVX100A might be the go, if you're really serious, shoot Super 16, if you are really strapped for cash try Super 8, don't laugh Kodak have the stock back in production which is probably going to push the price of the cameras up. One of the winning docos in this years Sydney Film Festival was shot on Super 8. It's never going to come close to 16mm but at least you'll learn about shooting film without breaking the bank.

logiquem I have thought about the DVX100 Many Times These are the probs I have with it

You have to buy an Anamorphic adapter:( which for the cost you could always add a bit more Money and get a Camera with Interchangeable lenses and bigger chips with better all round quality.. Deinterlace and film looks use Magic Bullet.... I know the time savings involved but seriously If I come up with good enough Footage and editing at My stage I would be happy to put up with the long render times...

Cyrille Your right of Course... Renting seems to be the way all Professional Films get made..and this is fine for professionals.. My problem with this would be In order to use these cameras, you need experience.... Renting them to gain experience would mean possibly as much outlay as buying one..The Price range of Camcorder Im looking at... Something that has the same Controls as Professional.... But on a semi pro level and at a push could be used to make a low end cheap Film ( By industry standards)..

Of all the Cameras I have looked at the Sony 570 WSP seems to offer everything.. Except Progressive.. The Bugbear is of course the price... I would be looking at £12000... Might as well go for a second hand cheap version of a digibeta Cam ....ANYWAY.. with the Imminent release of Sonys new HDV Camcorder... Best to wait and see whats around the Corner.. Although... Undoubtably... It will stil have a fixed lens and a probable 1/3 chip size..

My reason for Posting is... I was prompted by farrs response in a a previous post about BEST CAMERAS... And thought I could get some recommendations of Semi-Pro Camcorders for Low end Pro use from the wealth of Knowledge here in this Forum..

farrs thanks for that ! So Basicly the Extra Quality Glass in the more expensive DV Cams is Wasted on the 5 to 1 Compression that is DV ! I Would like to move up to the 2 to 1 Compression of Digi-beta.... Perhaps... There are second hand Cams on the Market But where would you look for these type of Bargains ect...

I Certainly would not laugh at using 8mm Its a great idea and quality wise still knocks DV AND DigiBeta into a cocked Hat... Problem is though You would have to get it onto your Computer to edit..

What you are looking for will require a large investment. Why not rent several different cameras and try them out first as cyrille suggested above? The one I would recommend for an incredible image and very good low light capability is the Ikegami HL-DV7W, but it is around $11,000 USD. It cost around $300 per day to rent here in the US. You can check with this outfit in London to see what they get for rental and/or sales price. The US price I gave you was from B&H in New York.
The suggestion to try 16mm was a sound one as farss explained above. If you are interested in Super 8 you can check out this site for some ideas.

John

>You have to buy an Anamorphic adapter:( which for the cost you could always add a bit more Money and get a Camera with Interchangeable lenses and bigger chips with better all round quality..

A post on the DVX user forum said the Sqeeze Mode in 24p on the DVX100a looks just as good as that done with the anamorphic adapter. You could not tell them apart on "most" cases.

That Ikegami Camera Looks Nice !I have taken on board farrs advice and decided that.. "At this present time" I have probably the best Solution the Canon GL2 oR XM2 As its known in the UK... I have found though the controls to be a bit erratic.. Sometimes doing there own thing ...Although perhaps it could be a Camera fault.. The Viewfinder Does not give a big enough Picture and the Optical Stabiliser.. WELL.. I think my one must have been left out (Non Existant) Also Not happy with Manual Focusing.. HOW Anyone focuses with this is..... Does it really matter its all in Focus anyway.. Its only when I try for DOP THAT Probs with the Viewfinder start But although its got shortcomings Perhaps its the Best money to performance deal there is at the moment.....always been reluctant to rent stuff as It could go to the cost of buying or even the deposit..

Thanks so far for all the excellent Comments... Had a look at some of craftechs Links...Thanks for that... I just like looking at these Cameras to me its like Looking at Sportscars ect... Great Stufff....

You might want to check out XDCAM- widescreen, progressive, interchangeable lenses, 3 CCD, 24p, records to DVCAM (or IMX in the moire expensive version) and saves it all to optical disk.

Vegas doesn't (currently) support the MXF files recorded onto the disks, but you can plug your DV cable in and capture like any other DV device. If you got the IMX/DVCAM version, you could capture the footage via SDI.

The discs are cheap too, tape-like prices. I really like this new camera - great quality, tapeless, 24p...

donp326 Is the Sqeeze mode Equivelent to the Anamorphic Mode in the canon ?.. Can it be used in Progressive MODE ?

Yes I want one !

Nice one SonyEPM! . .
Here;'s a link ..

Mark you got £23k- £25k inc vat?

.. yeah .. we saw these at Video Forum in Wembley .. yeah?

Is it Possible that users of Vegas could have The Cammie at half Price... Well OK.. but if you dont ask you dont get... I know Stop Laughing..

. . so Mark . .you got ... er .. . wait for it .. . £12.5k?

Grazie... Yes... we did and do you remember my reaction to them... OVERWHELMING Kit... Of course I dont have £23000 Big ones... BUT If I really did some serious talking ...INCIDENTLY I did run this by the Bank Manager setting up a Production Company for Corporate work... I agree with you about weddings :)

I realise that I may get nothing for a while.. Would aLSO have to establish Myself THEN I could afford about half that Amount... But I like things as they are at the Moment too Nice an easy No Pressure can be Creative without worrying about where the next Gigs coming from...

gRAZIE YUP !

Not at all, the better quality glass on the DV Cams is not a waste. But whne you start talking 2/3" CCDs and glass to match you're into broadcast qulaity gear. Put the cost of that together and the DV 25 versus digibetacam issue becomes a minor cost component, so no ones going to make a camera with highend CCDs and put expenseive lenses on it and record to DV25. There are cameras that come close, like the JVC 500 / 700 series, probably as good an image as you'll get onto DV25.
Once you step up to 4:2:2 sampling then the better glass and CCDs can make a difference. And then everything starts to cost more, the cameras are heavier, so you need better tripods, they use more power, so bigger batteries etc.

farrs what would you say is the best value for Money Camera for Semi Pro use.. What would you buy...

34 grand US MSRP and I'd need two.......That Panasonic GS400 looks better all the time......

Well,
bear in mind I'm in PAL land but shouldn't make that big a difference, I'm pretty keen on the DVX 100AE, drop the "E" for the NSTC version. I'd add a matte box, rods and follow focus gear and either the Panasonic 16x9 adaptor or I believe Century Optics have a new 16x9 adaptor. The I'd put it on a Miller DS 10 tripod.
Personally I'm not that keen on the 24p stuff but if you're going out to DVD it'd make some sense.
I would stress, this is not the camera for gun and run, to truly get the most out of it expect to much the same effort into setting up shots as you would shooting 35mm, you need good lighting, good talent, and probably a good focus puller.
If that's not your thing, PD170 or the DVC30 if you want more control, are hard to beat.
But at the end of the day, most of the things that make video look better happen before the light hits the lens.

...and you get a 7-year powertrain warranty too!

This gotta be the only video equipment with a powertrain warranty...

See the excellent FAQ at http://bpgprod.sel.sony.com/Professional/markets/optical/files/Faqs.pdf

farrs Im in PAL Land as well...UK Actually... Your Equipment list could easily get you a camera with 1/2 Chips and removeable lenses OK I know you have hands on experience... I would/Will Follow your Advice... When I see the Pictures of some of the prosumer Cams with Better Chips... The Optics alone Sometimes costing 1500 Pounds or more... I think they must be so much better.... But If the DVX 100 Is equivalent or Better... especially with what you would add on.... Then THATS what I wanted to find out...

I also see that you are not that Motivated by the 24p Stuff so I assume you are looking at features for perhaps the Lower end of Broadcast equipment... Not the Film Look... I assume... And Im Guessing here ..That you may think Its better NOT To use DV equipment to try for the Film Look... AS Film is just so far ahead in Quality.. The only real challenge is HD....BUT The way I see it is only trying to achieve a film Look for TV Not for the Cinema (Im prepared to accept though that this could be a completely wrong course.. as no one in broadcast might accept this type of Film)would be my goal.. Which could still bring us back to the DVX100..

Anyway thanks for the Insights.. At least now..I know a lot more than when I started this Post..:)

I saw in Computer Graphics World that the Sheryl Crow in-air concert was taped (should we say disked now? perhaps "lasered" sounds better :O) on XDCAM in 50 Mb/s IMX format and very quickly edited in Vegas 5 on Tim Duncan's laptop.

Can Vegas import full IMX via firewire? If not, how did he get it into his laptop? Is it possible to use the standard effects and transitions on IMX footage? If so, this really is pretty cool.