In this build of vegas 5 I havent had a single stuck buffer. Earlier vsersions had it. In vegas 4 the stuck buffer could sometimes be stopped with a special driver available from Matthias. There are other RME problems tho, such as hitting solo, unsolo mute and unmute, though others have reported this not only on RME

One of my programmer co-workers tells me he had to implement flushing the buffer on stop for his PC based version of our audio engine. I can get more detail from him if you wish. He seems to agree with RME.

I'm sure you've read Matthias' comments on the issue. I believe their latest drivers might have removed whatever fixes they had implemented in the past because since I installed them, it's made working with Vegas and ASIO a real pain. Fortunately, MME still works.

"This is the ONLY hardware that requires this behavior."

Sadly, this is what RME says:

"The problem is that Vegas is the only software around which does not delete its buffers on stop."

<sigh>

DSG

cant take the word of a company that chose to double wire both their adat and tascam i/os

Yep, I am very aware of what Matthias thinks. The argument goes both ways.

The RME hardware/driver is the only one that shows this behavior
If no other hardware/driver shows this behavior, then which hardware/driver vendor is right and should correct the problem?

In the end, I don't want to point fingers as it doesn't do the end user any service at all. We added a work around for what we percieve to be a RME specific issue. You can test this out with the trial version if you have not upgraded to Vegas 5. There will be no fix for Vegas 4.

If you still have a problem, let me know and I will investigate.

Peter

Damn Pipe, it seems you're always having one problem or another with those RME cards. I think I would have jumped off that boat a long time ago if I was you. To me it doesn't matter to me who's right or wrong, as Peter mentioned. I would look at my options. Change my software tool? Well that seems like a pretty big step when I've invested a lot of time becoming familiar and effecient with my software and this will be a major interuption in my workflow. Change my Soundcard and off the RME's on Ebay? Hello "Echo" here I come......doesn't seem like such a big workflow interuption to me, compared to the alternative. If Matthias was smart, although unfortunately he has the "my childs not ugly" blinding him syndrome, I guess he would have kept it quite at pointing the finger at Vegas. Not very smart Matthias.

This reminds me of a problem I have seen in the past, with system integration problems in a Toyota vehicle. For this particular system, Panasonic made the heat unit/radio, and Harman made the amplifier. Our customer Toyota found a problem and reported it to Panasonic. Panasonic did some investigations and came to the conclusion that it was an amplifier problem. So we met with Toyota and Panasonic on the issue, and said we would look into the problem and see if there was something we where doing wrong or could fix on the amplifier side to elliminate the problem. So we left and went back and did some further investigations. We found it was definately a Panasonic problem,we collected the data and referenced it to the design specs and showed it was definately a Panasonic problem and there wasn't anything we could do to fix it on the amplifier side. So we had a follow up meeting with Toyota and Panasonic and presented our investigation information. When we where done, the VP of Toyota engineering said, "Harman please leave." We got up, left the meeting room and when we closed the door, alls we saw was a bunch of papers being thrown into the air by the VP of Toyota and a whole lot of yelling in Japanese directed at Panasonic. Ever since then, I get a lot of phone calls from Panasonic when Toyota asks them to investigate a problem to ensure their information is correct and to see if we can fix the problem together. So anyways, I lean on the side of Sony when it comes to system problem solving. Pointing fingers doesn't do the customer any good.

I would ditch these RME's in a second if there were a suitable alernative. Once Vegas monitors in hardware, or PC's become fast enough to reliably do it in software, a bunch of more choices will open up

The Echo cards, you can turn them on so they monitor in hardware. How does this differ in the way the RME cards do it? In the echo cards you can turn hardware monitoring on or off, I usually set it to off and use Vegas to handle my monitoring switching for me.

if you compared rme's totalmix to echo's monitoring system you would be dismayed. My big problem with echo right now is just the lack of I/O options, seems like any driver bugs are long since gone

"if you compared rme's totalmix to echo's monitoring system you would be dismayed."

I guess that's why I asked you for the difference? In the Echo console you can edit and save different fader level positions and monitoring check boxes and easily just recall a preset to switch between modes.

"My big problem with echo right now is just the lack of I/O options, seems like any driver bugs are long since gone"

Yep, I know they don't have no 24in/24out interface, but you certainly can use multiple interfaces in the same system. How about the MOTU stuff, they have some high I/O options?

I donmt think Im ever buying any motu stuff again. The echo stuff does look like a good bet. I dont see a model with TDIF I/O and the adat ins are limited to 48k as far as I can tell. We got a lot of money in converters, and it doesnt seem there is a way to use them with the echo stuff realistically.

Of course that may change, as we are looking at other converters that WILL work. How do the echo cards habdle having three in one system ?

I believe I added the fix for the stuck buffer because you were complaining about during the internal beta on 5.0.

The other issues are not related, so I wont comment here.

Peter

yeah, no stuck buffers here

now I need a button that can send a "smalll" yet painful electrical jolt back to the drummer

Yep, my bad. I didn't realize the Layla didn't have a TDIF input. And Yes, the Adat optical only supports up to 48K, but then again, so do the Adats. Unless you get one of the ADAT HD recorders, then you can record at 96Khz, but you lose half of your tracks, so you go from 24 to 12 tracks, that you can record on. You recording through your A/D's at 96K? A waste in my opinion.

I only have dual Echo Gina's on my system, not 3 and they work perfectly together, sample accurate sync. It says so in their manual :-)

Quote from Echo manual:
"The Windows drivers included in this package support multiple Echo cards within the same system. In addition, your new Echo hardware will operate alongside other Echo products. Echo hardware can also peacefully coexist with audio equipment from other manufacturers, but be aware that operating alongside another product is not the same as operating with it. In order for accurate synchronization to occur, the other audio product(s) in your system must support a synchronization mode that is compatible with your particular Echo hardware. Without such synchronization, the individual pieces of equipment will act independently of each other. This scenario may be fine for some musical applications; however, it is not appropriate for situations where sample-accurate synchronization is required or that will be affected by clock drift."

96khz for the most part around here is only for experiments and drum samples. I can do 28 I/O at 96khz with what we have here right now

I understand the theory of why higher sample rates arent necessary, but with every piece of gear I have tried so far the 48 vs 96 difference is clearly noticeable. Maybe its like they say, its easier to get filters working at higher sample rates. I dont care, I'll use what sounds best when resources permit ( which they really dont right now)

A lot of converters out there including three brands which we own are using double wire on the adat ports to do 96khz. TASCAM's original spec called for single wire 96khz and some can do this, most cant( including tascam's own 96k stuff, nuts)

I dont want to use echo's converters, and Im not totally thrilled about their monitor mixer system, though with a strong enough PC it might not matter

>>now I need a button that can send a "smalll" yet painful electrical jolt back to the drummer
<<

Damn, I was thinking about the same thing for vocalists that get to close to the mic.

Peter

Damn, I was thinking about the same thing for vocalists that get to close to the mic

YES!!! And guitarists that run through sound check at a reduced volume saving "head room" for the performance to "take over".

MJ

this is gonna get ugly :)

"Damn, I was thinking about the same thing for vocalists that get to close to the mic."

That ones already available, check your owners manual. You remove that 3rd pin off the AC chord and I haven't had a vocalist get too close in years. Works for electrical guitars and bass too, but I like to put a switch on the amp ground pin, otherwise I find they can't play too long before their hands start to turn purple. I find they get a little nervous though, when I start tapping my hand to the beat, with the switch just under my index finger.

The Mackie HUI has an external relay switch that is assignable to software control. I think I will have to add a mappable function in Vegas so these features can be controlled remotely.

Peter

Any news on this yet??
I just emailed RME asking that they address it in their drivers, but you never know if they will. I know Sony (SF) has always been very good about trying to fix these issues whenever possible.
As a new RME user, I find I need to use MME to avoid this problem in Vegas. Strange thing is I don't see the problem in ACID Pro 4 or 5!! Does this make sense? Has the problem been addressed in ACID?

Thanks

Still sucking. Worse they send Matthias out to insult you whenever you have problems. Please ask them to make another special "flush buffers" driver. I have asked, maybe if a few of us do theyll do it, they were cool about it a year or so ago, and it seemed to help some.

I just received a response from RME saying that they don't think they can fully fix the problem because of some need for the last buffer to be used with Digicheck - or something to that effect. He suggested I use MME.

But, he also mentioned the flushing drivers that you mention here. Are those the latest drivers on their website, or is there another driver that I don't have? Do you have this driver Pipeline?

So, I guess the ball is landing back in Sony's court. So, I will ask please can we have a special "delete the buffers on stop" fix in the next version?? I can't see how it could hurt anything else!

Thanks