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Subject:Nero 6
Posted by: Rednroll
Date:8/19/2003 6:20:19 PM

I know this is the Sound Forge forum....but hey...this is the only forum I know :-).

Just wondering if there's any users that have given Nero 6 a whirl yet, and what your first impressions are. I just downloaded the Demo and thought I would give it a try. Here's what my first impressions are:

1. Installing Demo version of 6.0 makes me deinstall my licensed v5.5 copy. I guess they can't coexist on the same system? So if I decide I don't want to purchase 6.0, I have to do a complete unistall of 6.0 and then go back and reinstall v5.5. What a pain in the ass.

2. New user interface....Yippy, they've gone the direction of Adaptecs Cheezy CD creator. Dumbed everything down. I'm sure this will appeal more to the average Joe that doesn't use CD burning programs much. The nice thing is that you can toggle a button and get back to the old UI pretty easily....but wait...The old pro UI lacks a feature that the dumbed down UI has. That being "No gap between tracks" checkbox. So in the old UI it will default to the 2 second gap between tracks, so if I don't want any gaps then I have to manually change the spacing to 0 seconds. But in the new UI, it doesn't show the spacing between tracks....although I can still change it by right clicking on it, but nothing to show at a glance of what I changed it too once I've changed it. I was hoping they would eventually give you an option of a default spacing option. Maybe, I'm overlooking something on how to achieve this using the old UI....so I decided I will check the help file, which brings me to gripe 3.

3. NO Help file installed!!! Not only did the demo version whipe out my v5.5, but it also whiped out v5.5 help file and didn't put a new one in it's place.

4. NerowaveEdit....ahhhh this is a far cry from being a serious stereo editor compared to Sound Forge...but it will get you by for being a CD/DVD burning program. The thing I found weird is that it seems to not have any support for DX plugins, but offers support for VST plugins. Hmmmmm Ahead/Steinberg....I believe these are both German companies....we better be careful....the Germans are at it again. :-)

5. NeroMix?.....this peaked my curiousity. My second favorite software developer jumping on the multi-track bandwagon? Hmmmm...not quite. It's a glorified version of Windows Media player. Just what I needed another media player on my system? I guess they have a different definition of "Mix" than I do.

6. It does have some nice new features, for burning DVD's and also MP4 encoding support. These will have to wait, until I finally decide to purchase a DVD burner. As for an upgrade for CD burning tool over v5.5. It's pretty much the same thing put in a different wrapper. The price is right, but it doesn't look like much of a benefit for my applications.

Subject:RE: Nero 6
Reply by: MacMoney
Date:8/19/2003 6:45:48 PM

Hi Red
We only use it to Burn CD and DVD roms
they can keep the rest of that crap

Ron Jones

Subject:RE: Nero 6
Reply by: keether
Date:8/20/2003 5:14:27 PM

So did you tune in to the new Nero when they were madly trying to get it out there for us to download? First July 18th, then July 25th... and still the Web site asked us to be patient for a few more days. But they still owe us, because I PAID for my new Nero!

I too found, lo and behold, no Help file when I needed one! Also I could not find the Crackle-Pop remover that was described in the reports ahead of time, which I'd been looking forward to (I have some old material to try it on). Hey---this thing cost me $50 and I DO need help sometimes!

I'd received Nero 5.5 as OEM with a computer I'd bought, and used the speedy little Nero Media Player to its non-pay limit of 30 CD tracks ripped. Since then I've used it to convert .WAV files to .mp3 and vice versa---no limit if the .WAV tracks are on your HD and not on a CD. But the new version doesn't give you any further free ripped tracks: It knows what you've done (talk about German thoroughness!) and gives you the choice: Demo, or Exit. If you choose Demo, you are told you've used up your credit and must now pay. If you Exit, ...well, you exit. That's called Free Choice.

Nero 6.0 gives you that accumulated content-bar at the bottom of the window, so you can see how much of the 650MB you are filling with your material. If you return to the project later, to burn additional material, the bar assumes two colors, to distinguish between what's there and what you are adding. Yes this is Adaptec-like but it's useful.

I regret that Nero will not coexist with Roxio on the same HD. That took me back to the days when MS Word would not deal with WordPerfect documents, and vice versa. (Nyah nyah you don't exist.) Until they found out they BOTH did better when files were interchangeable.

I've used Roxio quite a bit, and this new Nero acts more self-assured. It's also faster---"more stable" was the language in the pre-release review. It does seem so. I only discuss it here because the topic came up. I did want to try out the Crackle-Pop remover, but meanwhile I've ordered Noise Reduction so it's a moot point.

Subject:RE: Nero 6
Reply by: MacMoney
Date:8/21/2003 7:25:11 AM

I only use it like Ron.
For CDand DVD roms
I think we are on version 6.0.0.11

George Ware

Subject:RE: Nero 6
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:8/21/2003 7:37:46 AM

I mainly use Nero for backng Up my Mastering and Vegas mixing projects, and also most importantly Cd duplication since it can burn to multiple drives. I also like that it supports Cd text. Now if some other software developer could get CDtext and multi-burn features within their cd burning software, then I could like Nero 6 even less. :-)

"I think we are on version 6.0.0.11"
Yeah and what is up with their version revision numbers? Can it get any longer or harder for me to remember?

Subject:RE: Nero 6
Reply by: MacMoney
Date:8/21/2003 11:13:45 AM

>Yeah and what is up with their version revision numbers? Can it get any longer or harder for me to remember?

"LOL" No Kidding.

Tony Mac

Subject:RE: Nero 6
Reply by: whr
Date:8/21/2003 11:51:25 AM

I was under the understanding that for Nero to burn multiple CDS you had to have Windows XP or pay for a very expensive plug in. Is this still true? I use windows 98se.

Subject:RE: Nero 6
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:8/21/2003 12:11:45 PM

Yes, this is true. To have multi-burner support you have to pay an additional fee, which runs much higher than the actual cost of the software. It is not necessary to have XP, this works under win98 also. You pay the fee, they send you a new serial number which enables the multi-burner support option using the same software. No additional plugin.

I just found one more nich in this upgrade to v6. I burned a multi-session CDrom on my home PC, which I just installed v6 on. I went to work to add some files to the multi-session disc. I have done this all the time in the past, for transfering large files to and from work. Well my work PC still has Nero 5.5 on it. You try to continue a the multi-session disc using 5.5 from a disc that was burned by v6.0 and you get a nice "unrecognized file format" error. Nice!!!! So much for backwards compatibility, especially from a format that should be a standard between applications.

Subject:RE: Nero 6
Reply by: Frenchy
Date:8/21/2003 5:31:28 PM

Red:

I found the same prob, but worse - I haven't been able (with Nero 6) to continue a multi-session disk originally created in 5.5 OR in 6. I get a message ( in v6) that the disk was not a multi-session disk to begin with. WTF. Have you had this occur, or did I overlook some check box? Never had this problem in V5.5...

Frenchy

Subject:RE: Nero 6
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:8/21/2003 11:36:40 PM

Well, there might be some check box....I suppose we could look under the help menu...oh yeah that's right there isn't one :-) Seems to me if they totally overlooked the help file, that's a pretty good indication this program's been pushed out the door for some reason. Since I don't have a DVD burner yet, I think I just may be going back to 5.5, since for what I use it for it seems like I'm actually losing features and reliability by upgrading to v6.0. Figures, add new features and break the old ones.

I sent an Email to Nero's tech support today about this multisession problem after I read their entire FAQ section as suggested. You might want to do the same. I'll let you know if I get a reply.

Subject:RE: Nero 6
Reply by: RiRo
Date:8/22/2003 2:25:26 AM

Howdy Red!

I got the full-meal-deal on Nero 6. The licensed version installs over the licensed version of 5.5 with no probs. The user interface IS stupit. You can turn off the simplified junk and it looks pretty much like the old Nero. Mine shows the gaps and everything like the old one.

No help file was pretty no brainer, too. There is a downloadable manual, which is a little better than the help files, which do not exist. Tonight I picked up an update and it has the help files.

Wave editor seems useless. I mean, SF with plugins versus ... what?

I do use the multiple burner feature constantly. It burns two CDs at about the same time I could do one with one burner. That is the real feature I bought it for. I'm too cheap to buy a duplicator so I put both CDs on and do other stuff between swapping CDs. This works pretty well. One quirk, if you want ten copies, and you use two burners, you tell Nero you are making five copies... it apparently sees each set as a copy. Could get confusing if you had three or seven CDs... which is the next point... how many could it support anyway? I had to put an extra EIDE controller in the box to make it work. The HDD needs to be on one controller, and each CD need to be on different controllers. If the HDD is on the same as one of the CDs, it pauses to read/write, and throughput is pretty bad. Same for both CDs being on the same controller. I put a Promise controller in the box for the HDDs and use the onboard controllers for the CDs and get very nice results.

That is.. I had to pay for the Software and put extra guts in my machine to get what I thought I was getting with the Software...

anyway... done now and happy.

RiRo

Subject:RE: Nero 6
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:8/24/2003 10:09:39 PM

Riro,
You're overlooking some potentials of the multi-burner option feature of Nero. In your case you are putting your burners on the EIDE bus, and you are correct you can only mount 2 burners. In my case, I have a SCSI card plugged into my PCI slot. The card allows me to mount 8-50 pin SCSI Cd burners on it. I bought an external tower case and currently have 7 SCSI burners in it. I can make 7 simultaneous CD's using this setup and Nero. Thus I made my own duplicator at a fraction of the cost. I have a friend who put 3 SCSI cards in one PC and hooked up 24 CDR drives and successfully uses Nero to burn 24 CDr's simultaneously. Not bad huh?

Subject:RE: Nero 6
Reply by: Frenchy
Date:8/25/2003 1:29:21 PM

Thanks Red, LOL - Oh, yeah, the help file....

I haven't yet found the multisession answer, but I DID find the help file - Go to the Nero site here:

http://www.nero.com/us/sp_file.php?sp_file=eng

to DL the "English language support file" or some such nonsense and after running the .exe, it installs the help file into Nero 6. The website says it's already included, but then it says a lot of things...

Frenchy

Subject:RE: Nero 6
Reply by: RiRo
Date:8/26/2003 8:07:43 PM

yow! 24 burners?!?!?! that rocks. I got the wrong stuff when I went with EIDE. The next go will have SCSI!

Thanks for the information Red


RiRo

Subject:RE: Nero 6
Reply by: Geoff_Wood
Date:8/27/2003 3:14:28 PM

How did he get 24 drives on 3 scsi busses - are they 'wide'scsi, in which case why 3 ?

I have 7 CD-Rs on an UltraSCSI adaptor (=7 plus the controller ID). The maths says the best speed I can get is 8x (which is the most I would burn serious audio discs at anyway) with all drives running.

Nero. Dunno about '6' but I find 5 to have just as baffling a workflow (with all those different windows appearing /disappearing) as other germanic software like Cubase, Logic, etc.


geoff

Subject:RE: Nero 6
Reply by: kbruff
Date:8/27/2003 4:16:35 PM

REDNROLL -- what you describe to me is very interesting can you send me more details regarding your SCSI arrangement via email at: kbruff@yahoo.com

Subject:RE: Nero 6
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:8/28/2003 1:28:13 PM

There seems to be a few people interested in this setup so I'll describe it here for everyone.

It's really nothing spectacular.

The first thing you need is a SCSI controler card. Adaptec is the most popular and are the best/feature/fastest and also probably cost the most. I purchased a SCSI controler by Tekram. They offer a good selection of cards and are very reliable and you get more bang for your buck in my opinion. The SCSI controller card mounts into a PCI slot. Try to pick a slot which is not shared by other slots. At minimum the Card should have a 50 pin controler and a 64 pin wide SCSI controler. Each controler connection on the card will support a minimum of 8 SCSI devices. Newer cards support more devices per controler ports 16/32 etc. Most SCSI CDR drives are of the 50 Pin SCSI type. Most SCSI hardrives are of the 64 pin or 80 pin types. So what my setup does is I have a SCSI harddrive on the 64 pin controler. Connected on the 50 pin connector are my CDR drives. Currently I have 7, but as I mentioned the card will support 8, so I have room for one more. Each of the drives has it's own SCSI ID address, in which the controler can therefore differential the drives. You must make sure each drive has a differenct SCSI ID or there will be problems.

I purchased a SCSI tower. Which is nothing but a box that holds the drives and contains a power supply to give power to each of the drives, and contains an internal SCSI cable to connect all the drives too. The more watts the pwr supply the better. The last drive connected on the SCSI cable should have the highest SCSI ID number, and then you will need to connect a "SCSI TERMINATOR". Some SCSI controller cards have a "self termination" feature, if it has this then you don't need to worry about the terminator.

My hard drive is a 10K Seagate Cheetah. It is connected to the 64 pin connector, which also can additionally support another 8 SCSI devices.

So now from here, alls I have to do is make a CD Image, which I put on my SCSI harddrive. Then I just Run Nero, and burn that CD Image to all the CDR drives at once. Being able to do this is not that hard of a task for SCSI. SCSI has it's own processing power onboard the controller card, so therefore it is less CPU intensive.

One important note if you're going to build your own burner tower like this. You need to make sure all the CD burner are identical brand/model and also have the same firmware installed on them. If they are not, you can expect some problems. I recommend anything by Plextor. Plextor makes the best burners I've ever used. I'm currently using the Plexwriter 8/20's. These will allow you to only burn up to 8x, but for me that's fast enough.

Now about my friend I mentioned about earlier. He has a similar setup, the only difference is that he installed 3 SCSI controller cards, and each card supports 8-50 pin devices. I was actually surprised that this worked, because I had always thought you could only have 1 SCSI controler on your PC. He therefore built 3- 8Device towers and connected 1 to each of the controlers and he uses Nero to write to 24 drives at once. He does a little more quantity than I do. I usually, offer a Max of 200-300 quantities. He's got a few of these PC's setup now and runs quantities of 5000.

Subject:RE: Nero 6
Reply by: Geoff_Wood
Date:8/29/2003 6:58:26 PM

You can have as many SCSI devices as your PC has the 'steam' to drive. Has always been this way.

Common-or-garden 'narrow' scsi controllers (DB25, Centronics, or HD50 connectors) have 8 device IDs. The controller itself takes one, which allows *7* additional devices. So don't try attaching another drive unless you have a 'Wide SCSI' controller. 'Wide' SCSI controllers allow 16 devices (again 15+1). Sometimes the external connector is a 'narrow' one, allowing 8 external devices.

With my 2930U 'Ultra' scsi tower, I have 7 PlexWriter 12/4/32 drives. That's why they make 7-drive tower cases ! I have a second controller (2940) with Zip. Jaz, HDD and UltrPlex32 CD-ROm on board. With this setup I can actually copy to 7 drives 'on-the-fly'. with a mere Celeron 533, but I don't do anything else concurrently. BURNProof is a no-no for serious commercial duplication.

Because of the 30MB/s scsi buss speed, the highest rate I can burn at to all drives is 8x (which suits me anyway, because I have found this to give best quality results with the media I use) . I can do 12x with 4 drives no problem.

Adding additional controllers does of course up the load on the rest of the PC, and make system tuning far more critical. This setup is ideal for me, because it balances the rate of producing discs with the rate I can print the graphics (or stick on labels if that's your method).

I use Padus DiscJuggler, primarily because it could do the multi-drive thing years before other apps managed it. It is also a comprehensive production environment rather than 'just' a CD/DVD copying app, though others are catching up.

geoff

Subject:RE: Nero 6
Reply by: RiRo
Date:8/30/2003 4:01:59 PM

This is great information Red. Thank you very much. I am in the planning stages of increasing CD duplication capabilities, and this REALLY looks like a great way to go.

Thanks again,

RiRo

Subject:RE: Nero 6
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:9/8/2003 4:18:13 PM

Hey everyone, I got a reply back from Nero's tech support. Can someone tell me what it says or how it even addressed my original message I sent to them, posted below. I seem to have some difficulty understanding "Germenglish".

Dear valued customer,

thank you for your email.

The feature in Nero Express "no gap between songs" is tn Nero Bunring Rom to set the gap to 0 sec.

If you have any further questions please do not hestitate to contact us.

best regards

Thorsten Aust
Support

Ahead Software AG
Im Stoeckmaedle 18
76307 Karlsbad
Germany
Fax : ++49 (0)7248 911 888
http://www.nero.com
______________________________


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-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, 21.August 2003 17:27:31
To:'techsupport@nero.com' (techsupport@nero.com)
CC:
Subject: Multisession Cdrom incompatibility

>> I've been using Nero 5.5 for a long time now and have been really happy with
>> the solid performance I've gotten out of this product. One of the features
>> I use a lot is multisession Cdrom discs. I have my PC at home and a PC at
>> work, and this allows me to transfer large files back and forth between the
>> two PC's.
>>
>> I recently downloaded the Demo version of Nero 6 and installed it on my home
>> PC. I was highly disappointed that I was forced to remove my licensed v5.5
>> copy to install a Demo of 6....then I have to do an uninstall and reinstall
>> of 5.5 just to get back to where I was if I decide not to upgrade.
>>
>> The new UI is nice for some users....since I'm familiar with the software I
>> prefer the previous pro UI. That's pretty easy to get too, by clicking on
>> the "Nero" button. The thing I noticed though, in the assisted UI there is
>> an option of "no gap between songs" checkbox for audio CD's. Where is this
>> same option in the standard Nero UI? It would be nice if you implemented a
>> feature that would allow the user to set a default spacing between audio
>> tracks, instead of the forced default of 2 seconds. I thought, maybe I was
>> over looking something that there was no option for "no gap between songs"
>> in the standard Nero UI. So I decided to goto the help menu and see if I
>> could read something on the subject. Where is the help file for 6? Not
>> only was I forced to get rid of the help file in 5.5, but now you didn't
>> even provide one in it's place in v6.0.
>>
>> Ok, those are my gripes.
>> Back to my original subject intent of this email. What I found is that I
>> created a multi-session CDrom in v6.0. I took this CDR to work, and then
>> tried to add some additional files to it using v5.5. I get an "unrecognized
>> file format" error when trying to add files to this Cdrom and I can't add
>> any files. I've done this a million times when I had v5.5 installed on my
>> home PC, but now I can't. Time to go through this uninstall v6.0 and
>> reinstall v5.5 process.

Subject:RE: Nero 6
Reply by: Chienworks
Date:9/8/2003 5:26:54 PM

This sounds like an automated response that keyed off the phrases "gaps" and "2 seconds". Probably no human ever read your email.

Subject:RE: Nero 6
Reply by: keether
Date:9/9/2003 6:21:04 PM

"Probably no human ever read your email."

Don't be so sure. But imagine what a Nero tech with THAT level of English thought when he came upon Red's 'brief' message?

I complained to Nero about 'no help files' and received instructions to get rid of the present Nero setup completely, reboot to be sure, then download yet another install file (different name so perhaps they fixed something) and go from there. I don't have that information here but will copy it into the forum in its entirety when I get to my other computer.

Subject:RE: Nero 6
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:9/9/2003 7:19:08 PM

Yeah, that was my thought too. I might have overwhelmed him a bit. It almost seems that he had to use a translation program, to translate my English to German, then his German back to English.

It seemed kind of weird to me, that they would even mispell the name of their own product? Or maybe I got to get the "Bunring" plugin to make it work properly? :-)

"Nero Bunring Rom"

Sure is a funny way to spell 'isn't" also> "is tn"

Ok, maybe's there's a slight language barrier, after all it only took me 3 weeks to get that response back :-)

Subject:RE: Nero 6
Reply by: keether
Date:9/12/2003 2:44:32 PM

Following my own advice and doing a complete wipe-clean and reinstall of Nero 6---with some nudging by Nero. The "missing" Help files are in a separate location, but didn't seem to exist before.

http://www.nero.com/us/631941507584102.html

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