More personal opinion...

If Vegas had the ability to record midi, then it would, indeed, be the perfect app for me. Seems a little odd to have ASIO but no midi to lay down those fancy virtual instruments in infinitely adjustable glory - I say this understanding full well what ASIO *does* give Vegas that it didn't have before, but again - just my opinion.

mox2

I may be wrong here, but I thought ASIO gives everything it has to Vegas. ASIO is an audio driver model. If you're talking MIDI and Virtual Instruments, then that's VST technology, isn't it?

I realise they're both Steinberg technologies that were developed *somewhat* concurrently, but they're still distinct. They even have different logos. :-) So I'm not sure that it's accurate to imply that Vegas' ASIO implementation is incomplete.

Of course if I'm wrong I'll be happy to retract my comments.

Mark

Zorak11111,
I'm glad out of all the bickering mine was the "one" post that offered some information.

There really isn't a clear cut choice of "Vegas vs. Pro Tools". You should really do a "Sonic Foundry" vs. Pro Tools/Digidesign comparison. Sonic Foundry's software is more modular and integrate well with one another. Protools is more of an all inclusive program, and offers a little bit of everything within one package. Here's my core list of software and how I use it and it works well for me no matter what type of session I'm doing.

Software:
Vegas 4.0
Sound Forge 6.0
Acid Pro 4.0
Opcode Studio Vision

My pre-production tools for doing midi and loop type sequencing work are ACID and Studio Vision. Studio vision is a midi sequencer, I run this on a seperate PC from Acid. You can run both together on one PC, but I prefer to have them on seperate PC's for screen space and better system performance. Studio Vision can sync to EXT. MIDI BEAT CLOCK, SMPTE, and it's own internal clock. ACID can generate a Midi beat clock and can also sync to an incoming EXT. MIDI beat clock. I set Acid to be the Master and have Studio Vision sync to Acid's beat clock. Thus, when I hit play in ACID, everything plays together.

Once this process is done I render individual audio tracks from ACID. If I choose I could record my midi tracks as audio into ACID, but I would have to lay them off one at a time since you can only record 1 track at a time in ACID and this would take a long time if I have a lot of midi tracks. What I do is import all these audio tracks into Vegas, which is installed on the same PC as ACID. I could also save my sequence tracks from Studio Vision as a standard midi file and then open that within ACID so that my midi tracks and audio tracks are all together in one program, but I would also have to have identical midi interfaces and then swap midi chords on all my synths. This would work well if ACID and Vision where on the same PC though, but in my case they're not.

From within Vegas I have Vegas send SMPTE timecode to Studio Vision and record my midi tracks as audio. I could also send MIDI BEAT CLOCK from Vegas and probably get better sync, but my midi sequence could not have any tempo changes, because Vegas only has a master tempo for midi beat clock. My smpte sync is good though and have not had a problem yet. At this point all my pre-production tracks are all within Vegas. Now I record LIVE instruments, like vocals, guitars, bass, or anything else. I do all my audio editing within Vegas. Next step is final mixing, this I do within Vegas. Once an entire CD of mixes is complete the next step is mastering.

For mastering I use Sound Forge. Once the mastering of the individual songs are complete it's time to do the final CD assembly of tracks. For this, I go back to Vegas and then burn a redbook compliant CD. If any additional mastering tweaks need to be performed I can right click on the song within Vegas and use the "open in sound forge" option. Any changes I make in Sound Forge at this point, get updated within my assembled project in Vegas.

So as far as your Vegas vs. Protools question here is my summary:
MIDI editing and recording: Studio Vision is much better than Protools, ACID is about the same as Protools.
Loop audio sequencing: ACID is better than Protools
Recording/editing/mixing: Vegas is better than Protools
Mastering: Sound Forge is better than Protools
Track assembly to make a final CD master: Vegas is better than Protools.

So the conclusion is that the Sonic Foundry software suite is better than Protools. If you only have Vegas, then Protools may be better in some areas, and Vegas may be better in others.

Note: Studio Vision is no longer available, so choose the midi sequencing software that works best for you like Cubase, Logic Audio, or Cakewalk. Midi wise in my opinion neither of these programs are as good as Studio Vision was, thus why I continue to use it.

rednroll

Addressing your questions:

"1- I read Vegas isn't great with MIDI? explain?"

Vegas does not have midi tracks, only audio and video. Acid has midi tracks. If midi sequencing is a necessity...neither Protools or ACID is exceptionally good for this, but cover the basics. So be prepared for frustrations when you can't do a simple task very easily.

2- I can get 001 for $600 - Vegas Software alone is $400 then I need an I/O box and Sound card, which will probably run at least another $400 for something decent. Is it really worth it.

Depends on how important your workflow is and if you plan to expand your studio setup. If a steep learning curve is not a problem for your workflow then go with Protools. If you want your choice of hardware to choose from incase you plan to expand in the future, then Vegas is the better choice. Otherwise, plan on spending $5000 on your next audio interface to go with Protools.

3- Please add any facts PRO & CON PT or VEGAS

See above post.

Why not download the demos for Vegas and Sonic Foundry and then install Pro Tools LE. Work with the interface for half a day each. Pro Tools for all its widespread use and acclaim still seems clumsy after using Vegas.

But, one thing you should take into account is using Pro Tools in other studios. If you want to move projects to big studios, the chances of finding Pro Tools there is much greater than Vegas.

What are your long term goals?
I've got almost the same setup as Red and use it almost identically. I render tracks using softsynths after playing them into Acid. They are then wav format for Vegas.

Are you a midi guy?
Guitar and vocals?
Track at a time?
Full band?
Everything at various times?

If you are wanting to build a home studio, both products will satisfy your needs.
Vegas in general is easier to use but not as widely compatible with other studios.

Zorak11111,

I use both Pro Tools LE 5.3.1 (32 track limit) and Vegas (unlimited tracks). I like them both. In short, Vegas is better (by a long shot) with video. Pro Tools is set up more like an analogue system and integrates very well with outboard gear. DX plug-ins are more available than RTAS plug-ins but very good plug-ins are available for both. Right now, PT seems to have fewer bugs than Vegas.

I really don't want to say much more. Please take no offense, but asking this question on a Vegas forum is like asking a Mac forum how they like PC's.

Another thing you might consider is to download the manuals for each and read and compare.

If you really want to know which is best for you, go to Guitar Center and buy them both, try them out, and return the one you like least within 30 days. The Digidesign ASIO driver will allow you to use the Digi001 hardware with Vegas. And don't bother with Pro Tools Free, it is nothing like the real versions (and won't run on XP).

Good luck,
Greg

<<Zorak11111,
I'm glad out of all the bickering mine was the "one" post that offered some information.>>

Do they make doors wide enough for your head Red?
You're so full of crap it makes me ill.

Zorak, don't listen too intently to this egomaniacal dumbsh*t RednRoll. He fronts around here like some half-as$ed fly-boy pro who fiddles with the sliders in vegas at best.
Rehashing what others before him have already stated. He's been a putz since day one.

Look, you're working with audio tracking, video, and midi... look into cakewalk Sonar 2.2 XL.
I use soft-synths, ACID, and Vegas successfully...but I'm not going to be foolish (see: rednroll) enough to praise SF products only.
Judging from your questions, the better cash spent would be into SONAR 2.2.

http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR/XL.asp

I suggest RME, Maudio, and Echo - in that order. Unless you have a mac, avoid the digi001, MOTU like the plague.
As you choose your audio interface of choice, you then have as many tracks as your system and I/O can handle (definition of "unlimited tracks" btw), full midi tracking capability and control, integrate ReWire-compatible synths, simultaneous DXi synths, VST instruments and effects (with VST to DX converters) , audio loop construction, ACID-zed files, MIDI FX plug-ins, video, tons more....all in one app.

You really want to dump your $ into what Rednroll has:
Vegas 4.0
Sound Forge 6.0
Acid Pro 4.0
Opcode Studio Vision

....all to accomplish what could be done in Sonar 2.2?
***ask around and check on support for "STUDIO VISION" by the way. I like an Atari ST for MIDI sometimes...but would I suggest it?

To add:
I hate to say it, unless you're looking for the better video editor over anything else, why risk where vegas will be in a year when you have an app that does it all from a solid company.
I use Vegas due to it's UI mainly (the SF devs really outshined there), the fact I mainly record live instuments and know vegas very well (fast)...but does that weigh in with what you want to do? The choice is your's but I don't think so. Besides, there is no need for a separation of ACID and Vegas, it's a sad nickel and dime approach SF has taken.

Vegas will not offer midi tracking whatsoever (that right there is a deciding factor when reading your post).

As for PT: I'm right there with everyone else. I still see no reason to insist on PT. Locked into proprietary hardware?... not to mention the f-ing outrageous price. RTAS\TDM's are nice...but is that a deciding factor? Not with most.
Save you're money for some nice monitors, mics, and more.

Again, I would go with RME, Maudio, or echo audio interfaces, then SONAR 2.2 XL from the looks of what you want.
If you're looking for a strict audio multitracker and video editor, then Vegas 3.0\4.0 is worth looking into.

A\B the features in Sonar 2.2 with what you want to do...you'll find it's the app for you.

Rednidiot needs to retire his swim in "lake me" and wake up to the fact he's a friggin moron.

JoeD

I would sum up what your saying with a simpler example.
Look at all the hype surrounding the iPod, what a brilliant idea, why didn't anyone think of that before :)

Another question????? Can you use Vegas/other SF Product with the 001 Hardware?